• Log in with Facebook Log in with Twitter
Photo

Pentax 135 (FF) Body and 24-70mm Lens Update


  • Please log in to reply
17 replies to this topic

#1 dave9t5

dave9t5

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 380 posts
  • LocationToronto, Canada or Taichung, Taiwan

Posted 24 September 2015 - 11:30 PM

Pentax Full Frame Official Teaser (Delayed)

http://www.pentaxfor...pring-2016.html

 

Previously, it was slated for "market launch by the end of 2015".  Now it's Spring 2016.  

 

Maybe they are updating it to Sony's 42MP sensor?  Maybe they have to update the 645x series first as a consequence?  Maybe just regular hardware or software bugs?

 

 

HD Pentax-D FA 24-70mm F2.8 ED SDM WR Announced
 
Very Tamron-y.  Very very very very.  I'm talking about the plethora of prefix and suffix acronyms, of course....   ;)


#2 Rover

Rover

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,471 posts
  • LocationRussia

Posted 25 September 2015 - 09:10 AM

Oh mask, I know thee...

I mean, this lens even looks a lot like the Tamron - they should've done better at disguising it. Or Sony might wonder that the sweetheart isn't all that faithful. :) Though I have to admit - it's becoming a kind of Santa Barbara because didn't we all think that the real father was yet another one (after all, didn't Tokina also roll out a 24-70/2.8 lens around this time).



#3 dave's clichés

dave's clichés

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,587 posts

Posted 25 September 2015 - 09:14 AM

Hi Dave, I must say your looking dapper!

 

 Remember the FF announcement night,  LOL!

 

   Yeah Pentax "majoring" on FF delays as usual, you know autumn, winter ,spring ,late spring, early summer and so it goes......

 

   And Oh the Tamron,  all dressed up for the ball, arrives late of course after midnight and turns into a Pentax green striped frog.........and yes it's the.................DA  DA!.....  oh no it's  the FA FA!....  without the * ?  (rhyme) 

 

Tamron,....no doubt about that.... but Pentax are saying it has a metal barrel and HD coatings...they whip out the VC module stick a plastic lens support in it's place, spray can the HD coatings on and stick the VC modules on ebay......nice surprise though it's the same price as the Tamron in the Canikon mount! 

 

  If your going to rebadge a 24-70 F2.8 they probably couldn't have made a better choice., the lack of VC also should confirm the FF will have SR.



#4 Rover

Rover

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,471 posts
  • LocationRussia

Posted 25 September 2015 - 09:52 AM

Tamron,....no doubt about that.... but Pentax are saying it has a metal barrel and HD coatings...they whip out the VC module stick a plastic lens support in it's place, spray can the HD coatings on and stick the VC modules on ebay......nice surprise though it's the same price as the Tamron in the Canikon mount! 

 

  If your going to rebadge a 24-70 F2.8 they probably couldn't have made a better choice., the lack of VC also should confirm the FF will have SR.

That the already announced 70-200 and 150-450 didn't have stabilization was a dead giveaway that the IBIS is not going anywhere... one can get away with no stabilization in a 24-70 lens (Canon, I'm looking at you), much less in a 70-200 or an even longer telephoto. Dave, and concerning the price... Tamron does sell the Sony mount versions (with no apparent VC) for the same money as the Canon / Nikon ones. So we couldn't wait for anything different here.



#5 dave's clichés

dave's clichés

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,587 posts

Posted 25 September 2015 - 11:28 AM

That the already announced 70-200 and 150-450 didn't have stabilization was a dead giveaway that the IBIS is not going anywhere... one can get away with no stabilization in a 24-70 lens (Canon, I'm looking at you), much less in a 70-200 or an even longer telephoto. Dave, and concerning the price... Tamron does sell the Sony mount versions (with no apparent VC) for the same money as the Canon / Nikon ones. So we couldn't wait for anything different here.

  Well it's certainly a nice surprise, I was expecting it to be a couple of hundred bucks more expensive with the Pentax badge on  it, like it was with the Tamron 18-270mm. Still I think Pentax are staking out quite an investment here with the FF, the camera could be a make or break deal, they've got to go for sell sell sell,  I would hate to think what would happen if they got stuck on the shelves!



#6 Rover

Rover

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,471 posts
  • LocationRussia

Posted 25 September 2015 - 12:27 PM

Success is far from assured for them. I can understand those who have old Pentax lenses on the shelf, hoping for a matching body... years and years on. But first of all, their number can't be very large - certainly not enough to vindicate all the R&D and other expenses - and then again, all those lenses are OLD... in the last 15 years, new competitors have sprung up and technology has evolved by leaps and bounds. I can understand that the Pentax had their own "holy trinity" - the 31, 43 and 77 lenses - but they're all dated, screw-driven and question marks of various sizes hang over each of them in the optical quality department when dense digital sensors are involved (see PZ's own reviews - the 43 was especially woeful but the 77 wasn't very thrilling either; the 31 is pretty fine but it remains to be seen how good it is on FF where all the ugly edges are shown). Meanwhile, Sigma and Tamron have made strides in their design but their newest and bestest lenses are available for most mounts... though sometimes not Pentax anymore. So Pentax/Ricoh needs to act quickly and decisively, lest they be hit with the same stick as Sony a while ago: "Not enough lenses!"



#7 dave9t5

dave9t5

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 380 posts
  • LocationToronto, Canada or Taichung, Taiwan

Posted 25 September 2015 - 10:47 PM

Hi Dave, I must say your looking dapper!

 

 

Heh, heh, thanks kindly.  The old profile pic was more photographer-y, but a bit dated.  This one is a bit more current.

 

Hope more long-time members add profile pics.  I know many photographers don't like to be photographed themselves but it's certainly nicer for our community to put faces to names (ok, handles) than boring old default silhouettes.  Heh heh...



#8 dave's clichés

dave's clichés

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,587 posts

Posted 26 September 2015 - 08:03 AM

Success is far from assured for them.  I can understand that the Pentax had their own "holy trinity" - the 31, 43 and 77 lenses - but they're all dated, screw-driven and question marks of various sizes hang over each of them in the optical quality department when dense digital sensors are involved (see PZ's own reviews - the 43 was especially woeful but the 77 wasn't very thrilling either; the 31 is pretty fine but it remains to be seen how good it is on FF where all the ugly edges are shown). Meanwhile, Sigma and Tamron have made strides in their design but their newest and bestest lenses are available for most mounts... though sometimes not Pentax anymore. So Pentax/Ricoh needs to act quickly and decisively, lest they be hit with the same stick as Sony a while ago: "Not enough lenses!"

  Yes all will be revealed with the Pentax FF body at the edges, but it may not be such a disappointment, the old Nikon AF-D series lenses in screw-drive are looking very good on the D750. (a thread to follow)

    I think there's somewhat of a misconception about FF sensors being demanding, yes they test a lens's performance at the edges, but there are having an easier time everywhere else, given a 30X20 cms print size it's the APSc sensor that tests the lens's resolution and struggles the most purely because of magnification. 

   My findings from the D750 and D7100 with the Tamron 150-600mm and the Nikon AF-S 70-300 VR both of which are only decent on APSc, are that they suddenly look more like quality lenses on FF.

    I think many will be pleasantly surprised by the results from some of this old Pentax glass, but even that obviously can't redeem the lack of modern designs.  

   I think if things go forward we will be seeing a lot more re-badged Tamrons!



#9 Rover

Rover

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,471 posts
  • LocationRussia

Posted 26 September 2015 - 08:13 AM

  Yes all will be revealed with the Pentax FF body at the edges, but it may not be such a disappointment, the old Nikon AF-D series lenses in screw-drive are looking very good on the D750. (a thread to follow)

    I think there's somewhat of a misconception about FF sensors being demanding, yes they test a lens's performance at the edges, but there are having an easier time in everywhere else, given a 30X20 cms print size it's the APSc sensor that tests the lens's resolution and struggles the most purely because of magnification. 

   My findings from the D750 and D7100 with the Tamron 150-600mm and the Nikon AF-S 70-300 VR both of which are only decent on APSc, are that they suddenly look more like quality lenses on FF.

    I think many will be pleasantly surprised by the results from some of this old Pentax glass, but even that obviously can't redeem the lack of modern designs.  

   I think if things go forward we will be seeing a lot more re-badged Tamrons!

Well, most of those AF-D lenses (like 35/2, 85/1.4...) didn't do too well in tests done here at PZ. The new AF-S ones usually run circles around them (I hope Markus does catch up with Nikon's pace of releases soon...) It was similar on the Canon side, even though at times the other tendency you speak of is rearing it's head (when a lens is no longer able to benefit from the smaller image circle, and is coming under pressure from much increased pixel density...)

Well, if Pentax is going that route - rebadges - I think they're doing themselves no favour in the long run. Not to mention that Tamron is still pretty short on primes, and even the recent 1.8 twins are but a step to amending that (unlike Sigma who has filled out the high-end lineup nicely (maybe a 135 would be handy, but just maybe - I have no idea how many people are interested in this), and may get to the mid- and lower range someday). So they'll have to get to the drawing boards themselves.



#10 dave's clichés

dave's clichés

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,587 posts

Posted 26 September 2015 - 11:09 AM

Well, most of those AF-D lenses (like 35/2, 85/1.4...) didn't do too well in tests done here at PZ.

  This is true and I started out with little intention of getting anything other than the AF20 F2.8D, It doesn't look anything special in the reviews, but it is a sharp lens easily to the edges and only softening in the extreme corners (and I mean extreme) so I tried the 24mm which is very sharp hasn't corner issues.The AF-35 F2D is a lovely lens,compact and sharp (again extreme,extreme corners F11 is needed if your looking at 100%, but realistically who is?

 The AFS series is undoubtedly better, but, BIG, plasticy and expensive for what they are in my view, if you're out and about with the modern FFs your now carrying a lot of kit, and the only weight saving is in your wallet.

 

 Here's my new out and about kit, D750+ AFD 35.  AFD 20..AF24. + AF 55mm micro in a nice small bag...................................... The newly ordered  AF28-85mm F3.5-4.5 micro is on it's way to replace the 55 micro as a walk around, price 40 euros!
 If you want sharp,solid, light and reliable (probably for life) and love buying bargains, buy AFD and crop 5% "if" you really need tack sharp to the corners.

 If your wallet is deep (bottomless) and your wife loves carrying half of your heavy zooms and modern fixed focals, buy the latest gear brand new! 

  

PS. The 55mm macro is ludicrously sharp! (to the corners and probably beyond)

 

 IAttached File  IMGP9284.JPG   58.5KB   0 downloads

 

 

 

  Dropbox link to a RAW image from the AF 35mm F2 @F9

 

https://www.dropbox....ef=e&n=61566586



#11 Rover

Rover

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,471 posts
  • LocationRussia

Posted 26 September 2015 - 09:24 PM

Haha... I'm a Canon user but I guess my approach would be different from yours even if I had shot Nikon. I was/am usually of a view that if one has the money to buy a pricey FF camera (and they tend to be pricey), there's no way around going for matching top of the line glass, unless you risk wasting the potential (though there surely are exceptions). Maybe I'm wrong - I'm not using FF anyway.

P. S. Just today I saw a guy on the same shoot sporting a 5D Mark III with bronze age 24/2.8 and 35/2 lenses (non-IS ones) so maybe this was your spiritual kin from the Canon side. :)

YMMV.



#12 dave's clichés

dave's clichés

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,587 posts

Posted 26 September 2015 - 11:33 PM

Midrange full frame bodies are a drop in the ocean compared with top range glass, literally! A true kinship exists between me and your 5D mkIII guy obviously, he is a very smart man indeed, he's also twigged how to squeeze the very last drop out of his existing glass.

#13 Brightcolours

Brightcolours

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,672 posts
  • LocationThe Netherlands

Posted 28 September 2015 - 11:19 AM

I have the 6D and the EF 35mm f2 too. And bronze age 55mm f1.2's and 85mm f1.8. ;)



#14 Rover

Rover

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,471 posts
  • LocationRussia

Posted 28 September 2015 - 11:43 AM

Well, until recently the situation in the Canon camp was pretty muddled - there were the L lenses and the non-L consumer fare, with good units being few and far between (85/1.8 being a well known exception). When the 100/2.8 macro and 70-300 IS were phased out in favour of the L models, I had a feeling they're going to drop the non-L/non-EFS line completely, leaving maybe the old 50/1.8. Now, of course, with full frame becoming increasingly affordable, they've thankfully made up their mind and started updating that stuff. But Nikon is still far ahead here, maybe in part because they do not have a well-defined "top-of-the-line" designation like L in Canon land.



#15 dave's clichés

dave's clichés

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,587 posts

Posted 28 September 2015 - 01:51 PM

I have the 6D and the EF 35mm f2 too. And bronze age 55mm f1.2's and 85mm f1.8. ;)

  Yep, polished bronze is indeed golden!


  • Brightcolours likes this

#16 Brightcolours

Brightcolours

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,672 posts
  • LocationThe Netherlands

Posted 28 September 2015 - 02:42 PM

Well, until recently the situation in the Canon camp was pretty muddled - there were the L lenses and the non-L consumer fare, with good units being few and far between (85/1.8 being a well known exception). When the 100/2.8 macro and 70-300 IS were phased out in favour of the L models, I had a feeling they're going to drop the non-L/non-EFS line completely, leaving maybe the old 50/1.8. Now, of course, with full frame becoming increasingly affordable, they've thankfully made up their mind and started updating that stuff. But Nikon is still far ahead here, maybe in part because they do not have a well-defined "top-of-the-line" designation like L in Canon land.

The Canon 100mm f2.8 L IS USM Macro is not really more expensive than the Nikkor 105mm f2.8 VR Micro, which phased out the 105mm f2.8 non-VR predecessor.  So it is the same difference there, really. The Canon EF 70-300mm f4-5.6 IS USM still lives happily in the Cano line-up... It was not phased out.

 

Canon started to freshen up its line-up with the 24mm f2.8 IS USM, 28mm f2.8 IS USM and 35mm f2 IS USM before they even started to freshen up the L lineup... And before Nikon started to bring their f1.8 models. The difference between what Canon did and Nikon is that Canon started with f2.8/2 with image stabilization, and Nikon with f1.8 primes.

 

Nikon had a lot of catching up to do, with bringing AF-S primes, and even a 35mm f1.4 with AF. Not sure why you see the Nikon line up as being far ahead. Yes, their 20mm f1.8 is a better lens than the ageing Canon 20mm f1.8 USM.

 

But, this is a Pentax thread.... Yes, Pentax has a lot of work to do still, to give the upcoming (....) FF model a viable lens lineup. 



#17 Rover

Rover

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,471 posts
  • LocationRussia

Posted 28 September 2015 - 06:35 PM

The Canon 100mm f2.8 L IS USM Macro is not really more expensive than the Nikkor 105mm f2.8 VR Micro, which phased out the 105mm f2.8 non-VR predecessor.  So it is the same difference there, really. The Canon EF 70-300mm f4-5.6 IS USM still lives happily in the Cano line-up... It was not phased out.

My bad. I was under the impression that when the 70-300L was introduced, the non-L has ceased to be produced and only the old stocks were being sold.

 

Canon started to freshen up its line-up with the 24mm f2.8 IS USM, 28mm f2.8 IS USM and 35mm f2 IS USM before they even started to freshen up the L lineup... And before Nikon started to bring their f1.8 models. The difference between what Canon did and Nikon is that Canon started with f2.8/2 with image stabilization, and Nikon with f1.8 primes.

 

Nikon had a lot of catching up to do, with bringing AF-S primes, and even a 35mm f1.4 with AF. Not sure why you see the Nikon line up as being far ahead. Yes, their 20mm f1.8 is a better lens than the ageing Canon 20mm f1.8 USM.

 

But, this is a Pentax thread.... Yes, Pentax has a lot of work to do still, to give the upcoming (....) FF model a viable lens lineup. 

Nope, you're only partly right: the first Canon L refreshes came long before the IS/non-L trio: the 14/2.8 and 16-35/2.8 were updated in 2007; 24/1.4 in 2008, 70-200/2.8 IS in 2010, the big telephotos in 2011, and the non-L lenses updates before the IS trio (June 2012) were numbered at precisely zero... so the direction at that point seemed clear. But Canon still has nothing like Nikon's new 1.8 units (the 35/2 IS being the only similar thing, and 50/1.8 STM being optically identical to the previous version). BTW, Canon's 20mm is f/2.8, not f/1.8, and pretty crummy at that.  ;) EF 28/1.8, I wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pole either, so I hope that my opinion about Nikon being ahead in consumer segment may be more clearly explained now. :)

But if we're to return to the subject of Pentax - I sincerely wish them luck, because I like the underdogs... and some competition can never hurt. We live in exciting times photography-wise.



#18 Brightcolours

Brightcolours

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,672 posts
  • LocationThe Netherlands

Posted 28 September 2015 - 07:35 PM

 

Nope, you're only partly right: the first Canon L refreshes came long before the IS/non-L trio: the 14/2.8 and 16-35/2.8 were updated in 2007; 24/1.4 in 2008, 70-200/2.8 IS in 2010, the big telephotos in 2011, and the non-L lenses updates before the IS trio (June 2012) were numbered at precisely zero... so the direction at that point seemed clear. But Canon still has nothing like Nikon's new 1.8 units (the 35/2 IS being the only similar thing, and 50/1.8 STM being optically identical to the previous version). BTW, Canon's 20mm is f/2.8, not f/1.8, and pretty crummy at that.  ;) EF 28/1.8, I wouldn't touch that with a ten foot pole either, so I hope that my opinion about Nikon being ahead in consumer segment may be more clearly explained now. :)

But if we're to return to the subject of Pentax - I sincerely wish them luck, because I like the underdogs... and some competition can never hurt. We live in exciting times photography-wise.

You are right about the 20mm of course, I indeed seem to have confused the 28mm to a 20mm earlier today  ;).

 

Nikon's f1.8's have no IS, so it depends on how you look at it. They just made a different choice.

The Canon EF 50mm f1.8 STM does not have to hide from the Nikkor AF-S 50mm f1.8.. Sharpness wise, they are pretty much similar. Both have so-so bokeh, the Canon has the edge CA wise. Even the distortion is a bit stronger for the Nikkor. I can't see an advantage of the Nikkor over the Canon, at the moment. Unless one really needs MF and then the focus by wire from the Canon is not as tactile. 






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users



© by photozone.de