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Pentax Full Frame; first glimpse


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#21 Rover

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Posted 16 February 2016 - 05:34 PM

The 15-30 is a "Pentax"-labelled Tamron (except the WR-part? Is the Tamron originally weather-resistant?) Doesn't have to be a bad thing. What Leica can do with brushed up Panasonics and Hasselblad with Sonys, Ricoh can also do. I just don't think, servicewise it's a cool idea. One lens to Pentax, the other to Tamron.

 

USB 2.0 is a joke, a pretty bad one, too. And the rest are nice specs. Just: who cares about another FF DSLR?

"The 15-30 VC has a level of moisture sealing including a lens mount gasket. Tamron states "Moisture-resistant construction helps prevent moisture from penetrating the lens." <-- to quote the TDP review.

 

Who cares about what speed the USB is? Just pop out the card and use the reader (especially since every laptop created in the last 10 years comes with a SD reader of some kind). I guess it makes a difference only if you're doing a lot of tethered shooting. And readers can be upgraded to whatever fastest standard is out at the moment.



#22 JoJu

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Posted 16 February 2016 - 06:13 PM

In combination with 36MP and the DNG RAW files (but maybe they use another proprietary file format) it will be huge files. You're right, I see slow download for thethered shooting - but since not many tethered apps support Pentax (CamRanger, HeliconDocus, PhaseOne are mostly CaNikon weighted) it doesn't matter much. Cool is the dual slot.

 

And the rest? Anything what makes this a better choice than any other FF? Besides the genius LCD? It's a very limited system, if one calls a body and two lenses already "system".



#23 popo

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Posted 16 February 2016 - 07:43 PM

Most desktops don't come with a card reader as standard. Plus it is handy to just plug a cable in and get stuff off without yet another device to have around. Not fitting USB3 as standard doesn't make a lot of sense. Not a big deal perhaps, but still a sign.

I guess those most interested in this will be those who stuck with Pentax throughout. Doubt they'll find many switchers from other systems.

dA Canon 7D2, 7D, 5D2, 600D, 450D, 300D IR modified, 1D, EF-S 10-18, 15-85, EF 35/2, 85/1.8, 135/2, 70-300L, 100-400L, MP-E65, Zeiss 2/50, Sigma 150 macro, 120-300/2.8, Samyang 8mm fisheye, Olympus E-P1, Panasonic 20/1.7, Sony HX9V, Fuji X100.


#24 Rover

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Posted 16 February 2016 - 07:48 PM

Well... the system is already expanding, and at the very least it'll have the f/2.8 zoom trio and the 100-400 class lens (a 150-450 in this case). But the (modern) primes are of course nonexistent, apart from the 55/1.4 which is a "secretly FF" lens. So it's the lens release speed that's going to make or break this system; it cannot ride forever on the past glory of the three "Limited" lenses (31, 43, 77) that are, by now, pretty dated mechanically.

 

I'm not in the least interested as I'm well set with the Canon system but the body looks pretty innovative and with very little obvious shortcomings. Someone who would be starting from scratch might take a look at it - but again, it's the lenses that become the deciding factor. Sony has learned this lesson in a painful way, I think; we'll see if Pentax does the same.



#25 chrismiller

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Posted 18 February 2016 - 02:35 PM

So it's now announced. There is also a list of DA lenses that are compatable here: http://www.dpreview....ews/pentax-k-1 

 

Also the top control dials are innovative, one selected the function of the other. 



#26 robbiec

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Posted 18 February 2016 - 05:34 PM

Well... the system is already expanding, and at the very least it'll have the f/2.8 zoom trio and the 100-400 class lens (a 150-450 in this case). But the (modern) primes are of course nonexistent, apart from the 55/1.4 which is a "secretly FF" lens. So it's the lens release speed that's going to make or break this system; it cannot ride forever on the past glory of the three "Limited" lenses (31, 43, 77) that are, by now, pretty dated mechanically.
 
I'm not in the least interested as I'm well set with the Canon system but the body looks pretty innovative and with very little obvious shortcomings. Someone who would be starting from scratch might take a look at it - but again, it's the lenses that become the deciding factor. Sony has learned this lesson in a painful way, I think; we'll see if Pentax does the same.


In prime land the following are FF, 31/1.8, 35/2.4, 35/2, 43/1.9, 50/1.8, 50/1.4, 50/2.8 (macro), 55/1.4, 77/1.8, 100/2.8 (macro), 200/2.8, 300/4, 560/5.6 - reports are that the 40/2.8 and 70/2.4 will also cover frame.

#27 Brightcolours

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Posted 18 February 2016 - 06:45 PM

Also the old AF lenses that are not sold anymore. And older MF lenses.

And for the more adventurous Pentaxians, you can put Nikon MF lenses on it (with close focus restrictions):

http://adaptist.weeb...wr-version.html

 

I can recommend the Nikkor-S•C and "K" 55mm f1.2, Nikkor-H•C and "K" 85mm f1.8, Nikkor 85mm f1.4 Ai/Ai-S, 135mm f2 Ai-S, 35mm f1.4 Ai/Ai-S, 105mm f2.5 pre-Ai/Ai/Ai-S, Noct 58mm f1.2 Ai-S (expensive), 28mm f1.4 Ai-S (expensive).


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#28 doh

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Posted 18 February 2016 - 10:18 PM

But the (modern) primes are of course nonexistent, apart from the 55/1.4 which is a "secretly FF" lens.

 

In prime land the following are FF, 31/1.8, 35/2.4, 35/2, 43/1.9, 50/1.8, 50/1.4, 50/2.8 (macro), 55/1.4

Strangely, the dpreview article mentions 55/1.4 compatibility as "stopped-down" only, and not "fully functional". :( I wonder what that means exactly. I was thinking about buying that lens, but only if it'll work on FF body with no issues. If it's not usable wide-open on K1, then it's not worth it (it's not exactly cheap for what it is, most 50/1.4 from other companies are cheaper).



#29 Brightcolours

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Posted 19 February 2016 - 08:35 AM

Stopped down means (too) heavy vignetting wide open.


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#30 Rover

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Posted 19 February 2016 - 10:22 AM

Stopped down means (too) heavy vignetting wide open.

If it's worse that the average fast prime on FF (3.5-4.5 stops), then sure, but 4 stops are nothing out of ordinary. If the vignetting gets better by stopping down, then fine - with some "left-field" lenses, it actually becomes worse as you stop down - say, with Sigma 30/1.4 on APS-H which is usable till about f/5, and then it turns ugly.

 


In prime land the following are FF, 31/1.8, 35/2.4, 35/2, 43/1.9, 50/1.8, 50/1.4, 50/2.8 (macro), 55/1.4, 77/1.8, 100/2.8 (macro), 200/2.8, 300/4, 560/5.6 - reports are that the 40/2.8 and 70/2.4 will also cover frame.

I forgot about the 200/2.8, 300/4 and 560/5.6 - these do count as "modern" primes; the others are screw driven and therefore probably due for replacement anyway. I hope for the Pentaxians' sake that Sigma and Tamron get around to introducing some of their fresh stuff for the K mount.

 

Hey, they can rebadge the 35/1.8 and call it a "35/2 replacement". Actually, if they did this to the 15-30 and 24-70, nothing's keeping them from doing this again.


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#31 Rover

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Posted 19 February 2016 - 10:33 AM

Strangely, the dpreview article mentions 55/1.4 compatibility as "stopped-down" only, and not "fully functional". :( I wonder what that means exactly. I was thinking about buying that lens, but only if it'll work on FF body with no issues. If it's not usable wide-open on K1, then it's not worth it (it's not exactly cheap for what it is, most 50/1.4 from other companies are cheaper).

Guess you can only check this on the spot and see if the level of vignetting is tolerable for you. Then again, maybe a Sigma 50/1.4 (non-A) is a better all around option, and surely it's a lot cheaper (the Pentax 55 was always on the expensive side). As far as I can remember, the Sigma was available in the K mount.


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#32 bladerunner6

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Posted 19 February 2016 - 01:10 PM

In combination with 36MP and the DNG RAW files (but maybe they use another proprietary file format) it will be huge files. You're right, I see slow download for thethered shooting - but since not many tethered apps support Pentax (CamRanger, HeliconDocus, PhaseOne are mostly CaNikon weighted) it doesn't matter much. Cool is the dual slot.

 

And the rest? Anything what makes this a better choice than any other FF? Besides the genius LCD? It's a very limited system, if one calls a body and two lenses already "system".

There are a lot more than "two lenses", more like 50, although I am counting manual focus lenses.  Just autofocus is a bit over two dozen, including the 200/300/560 that they say are fully functional with a full frame.

 

As for unique features, among them (for a full frame) is the Astrotracer, Composition Adjustment and Pixel Shift.



#33 Brightcolours

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Posted 19 February 2016 - 01:24 PM

Although the 560 is a very silly lens (old fashioned design with so-so IQ). 

What the camera needs is a few really good portrait lenses, a normal, a few wide angle primes and the Pentamron 15-30mm, 24-70mm and 70-200mm f2.8 zooms. Then there is a base to build on.

And Sigma to offer lenses with the Pentax mount?

 

I just hope that finally there is a Pentax which has good AF accuracy/tracking.



#34 Rover

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Posted 19 February 2016 - 02:36 PM

Although the 560 is a very silly lens (old fashioned design with so-so IQ). 

What the camera needs is a few really good portrait lenses, a normal, a few wide angle primes and the Pentamron 15-30mm, 24-70mm and 70-200mm f2.8 zooms. Then there is a base to build on.

And Sigma to offer lenses with the Pentax mount?

 

I just hope that finally there is a Pentax which has good AF accuracy/tracking.

Portrait lenses? See if Tamron is about to launch one, and then it may be "Penta-sized" in a very short order, a la the 15-30. :)

It's a little bit discouraging that Pentax is already relying on rebranding for precisely half of their new lens announcements though. This from a maker that is supposedly enticing users by a unique lens expertise; otherwise why bother - you can just use a Canon / Nikon body and the same Tamron designs, but also with access to the vast trove of other OEM and third-party lenses.



#35 doh

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Posted 19 February 2016 - 03:40 PM

Guess you can only check this on the spot and see if the level of vignetting is tolerable for you. Then again, maybe a Sigma 50/1.4 (non-A) is a better all around option, and surely it's a lot cheaper (the Pentax 55 was always on the expensive side). As far as I can remember, the Sigma was available in the K mount.

Well, for me Pentax is all about weather sealing: I often walk/cycle under rain/snow for hours, and just hate having to constantly cover the camera/lens with something (or having to put it in and out of the bag every time there's a photographic opportunity). There's not that many weather-sealed normal fast primes out there. That's why I am (was?) interested in the 55/1.4. Non-sealed K-mount lenses are of no interest for me, otherwise I'd go with something a lot cheaper (like the Sigma you suggested).



#36 Rover

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Posted 19 February 2016 - 04:48 PM

I think the Sony (Zeiss) ZA 50/1.4 is weather sealed as well.

Ditto the Tamron 45/1.8 (not a 50 but pretty darn close).

Not sure about the Canon 50/1.2 L (but it and the ZA are more expensive than the Pentax and the Tamron still, I have to concede that).



#37 JoJu

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Posted 20 February 2016 - 04:50 PM

....

As for unique features, among them (for a full frame) is the Astrotracer, Composition Adjustment and Pixel Shift.

 

So, it's all about shaking the sensor around, yes? I'm sure it's only me, I just don't recall the last time I missed the uncertainty of "what is this sensor doing while I think I switched every movement of it?" And why I never missed that open answer to the question "I DID switch sensor movement OFF, didn't I?", I'm sure one can do anything with the moving sensor feature, cutting jigsaw-puzzles, getting the coffee milk  stirred and with some accessories share some satisfying erotic encounters - but taking good pictures?

 

K-m and K-x were already doing sensor mumbo-jambo and I never got a decent picture without some flaw out of the combination Tamron 17-50/2.8 wide open and one of the Pentaxes. The pictures I liked were nearly all catched with a Sigma lens. Therefore I do have some slight doubts. My Pentaxes never made a picture without front- or back focus - so, if they can't get the AF straight, how do they want to move a sensor for exactly one pixel in any direction?

 

As well the moveable screen: Technically an interesting solution, but not as versatile as an articulated 180° × 270° LCD like a lot of Canons offer, Olympus and Nikon's 5xxx series. So, what's the point?

 

Personally I like the compact design if it, it reminds very much on a small scale medium format, as deep as this body is. The price is also pretty tempting giving what you pay other producers to get hands on a 36 MP sensor - but as usual, you get what you pay for.



#38 dave's clichés

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Posted 20 February 2016 - 05:27 PM

Well, Dave, the question is, will you give up your Nikon to go back to Pentax? Anybody willing to pay for Pentax FF? I mean, not the usual "if they offer this or that, I'll jump the boat!" - no "ifs" please, just, "hell yes, I've been waiting for Pentax all the last ten years, now I already preordered, even

  1. if the lens choice is not that big and third party lenses are dated or unavailable
  2. if all other accessoires are made for Canon or Nikon or from Sony
  3. if all RAW converters will take a little while to go Pentax - or I decide to use this fat DNG file format which usually wastes more disk space than anything else around except TIF
  4. if it remains questionable into which future we're steering: 60 year old mirror concept or mirrorless right now?"

Pentax once had gorgeous offerings for Professionals, the whole LX system was sort of on par with a Nikon F3 or better - but not many were interested. I don't know about the market share and for sure I'm not always happy with Nikon's decisions. But if it comes to Pentax, I'm done. Made my experiences and sold the whole stuff, never looked back. The screen is very innobative IMO - but that's just one detail. At least and after decades, articulated screen made it into a Nikon Pro DX, so it IS cool and usefull. But you're too late, Pentax. Again.

 To answer your first question........No...simply the 4.4 Fps frame rate is pretty pedestrian and no good for nature........and I really don't need 36 Mps.......I like Pentax and the new K1 promises to be a great resolution camera......not to forget the pixel shifting mode which I think will equal medium format quality.....so keep your eyes out for the tests when they start to come in. 

  The 33 point AF.......well we will have to see..........up against the D750.......Hmmm...I don't think so!

1. Going Nikon is just a breath of fresh air for lenses, I wouldn't want to go back to the get what you given Pentax range with slow SDM motors and their problems, screw-drive is pretty snappy however. The best of the old FA* lenses have always held their price well, but now they will as expensive as the new Pentax/Tamrons. I just hope that Sigma panda a little to the PK mount to augment what is at the moment a pretty meager FF range. A camera system is as much about lenses as bodies.

 The irony to that is my Pentacon is ready for Pentax and I'm modding it for Nikon!

2 Accessories are less of a problem.

3. RAW files with Pentax are all the same PEF/DNG. not like Nikon's.

4. I still think that DSLRs will still be the main stay of pro and prosumer cameras for the foreseeable future. (well certainly for me)

 

 I hope Pentax do well with the K1 but it doesn't look like it will attract Canikonites.... DPreview's Pentax forum is on fire at the moment and it's good to see Pentaxians getting their crack of the whip for once! 

 

  All in all....Good luck Pentax and well done to have got the K1 to market!

 

 

https://www.flickr.c.../124690178@N08/



#39 Brightcolours

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 03:14 PM

The amount of AF points never should be a deciding factor... 33 is more than enough. The question is, how capable is the AF system behind the sensor? Canon has the lead there, it will be interesting to see is this Pentax has made steps in the right direction there.

 

Of course, lenses play a big part there too, and that is certainly a field where Pentax has a lot of work to do.



#40 Rover

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 07:29 PM

In addition to what BC said above, I would rate the absolute quantity of the AF points as less important than their spread across the frame. Some of the recent full frame Nikons have a boatload of AF points, but what's the point (pardon the pun) if they're all closely clustered in the center? And it's not some academic observation: I often run into a situation where my intended target is outside the focusing grid. Even on my 1D Mark IV that's sometimes the case. I can focus and recompose, of course - and that's what I do - but it's not very convenient.

 

33 is plenty if the frame is well populated.

 

By the way, I think we've been missing a big question to ask: Klaus, are you going to start reviewing Pentax full frame fare? :)






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