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#1 Wolf

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Posted 01 August 2016 - 04:42 PM

I have been absent from the forum for a long time. during that time I sold all my Nikon gear, bought into Olympus EM1 with their best glass, including the 40-150 f2.8 + conv 1.4.  My photography includes wildlife, flying birds, nature and landscapes, travel, portraits and events and I print to A3+ at least. Unfortunately, the MFT sensor and the AF systems of the Olympus do not permit me to get the quality required for printing. I probably should have known, but I'm back to having to start all over. My thoughts are the Nikon D810 or D750 or D500 with the standard primes, 20, 35, 50, 85, 135 and the 200-500 f5.6 and/or the 300 f4VR with the converter. I could also go Canon. If I go Nikon, my main choice is between the D500 or one of the two full frames. 

I'd love to get the Pentaw K1, but the AF is not up to par for moving subjects so I forget that, but I really like the specs of that housing.

So Klaus, Brightcolours, all of you, give me your best input, because this is my last kit change and it needs to be the right one.



#2 dave's clichés

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Posted 01 August 2016 - 05:48 PM

There's so much to recommend Nikon at the moment with the new D500, fast shooting, arguably the best AF (it's the best out there, but someone will always want to argue about it anyway) and a bunch of bells and whistles, couple that with new AFS 200-500mm telephoto lens at a very affordable price, as you sound like you know already! 

 

  The question really between FF and APSc is one only you can answer, FF still reigns, I shoot the D750 for big birds and the D7100 for the extra reach for little ones, noise though is still your enemy sometimes with APSc, so my answer is get both if you can run the extra bucks. There's quite a few D810 bodies on the S/H market!

My choice D500+ new D750 or S/H D8100, from there you can pick or choose your glass, both Canon and Nikon have it all there.

 

 PS The D7200 is a bargain at the moment!



#3 chrismiller

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Posted 01 August 2016 - 08:53 PM

Fuji? 



#4 JoJu

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Posted 01 August 2016 - 10:22 PM

Fuji.

#5 dave's clichés

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Posted 01 August 2016 - 10:23 PM

Fuji? 

Flying birds, 500mm+ converter?



#6 Wolf

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Posted 01 August 2016 - 10:46 PM

Thanks Dave, I think you are right. I believe it would be a mistake not to take the D500 because of the huge leap in AF ability, even if the D7200 is a real bargain. If I add anoter body, it would most probably be a D810 or a second hand D800E, which is also inexpensive in the used market. The D810 is all those things the D500 is not and I think they combine well, as would a D750. However, if I consider buying two bodies, I may just as well consider a D4S and shoot it in dx mode with the 200-500, because the combined cost of a D500 and a D810 come very close to what the D4S can be had for. What do you guys think.

 

I admit that the Fuji idea has crossed my mind with the XT2, but I am very doubtful that the AF would hold up and I am not going to make the same mistake again. Mirrorless is wonderful for everything but rapidly moving targets and no mirrorless housing has proven that it can do it as well as a pro DSLR yet. The Fuji line has done just about everything right in my opinion and their lenses are really first class and I love the whole approach they have developed, but the AF????? The only approach I could think of would be using video on flying birds and pick good images, but you have a resolution problem when you do that so far. 



#7 Vitantonio Dell'Orto

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 06:18 AM

D4s on DX doesn't give you enough pixels for printing big and a bit of cropping, IMHO. Fuji IQ is wonderful indeed and their camera just feels "right", but EVF for quickly moving subjects with fast sequence shoots isn't good enough (yet: IMHO ;) and the AF in tracking mode still has to prove itself.

I suggest you to go with a D500 and combine it with a second hand D800, if you want to go with Nikon. D810 is great, but I don't think it worth the price differential with a D800 today.


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#8 dave's clichés

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 08:09 AM

Thanks Dave, I think you are right. I believe it would be a mistake not to take the D500 because of the huge leap in AF ability, even if the D7200 is a real bargain. If I add another body, it would most probably be a D810 or a second hand D800E, which is also inexpensive in the used market. The D810 is all those things the D500 is not and I think they combine well, as would a D750. However, if I consider buying two bodies, I may just as well consider a D4S and shoot it in dx mode with the 200-500, because the combined cost of a D500 and a D810 come very close to what the D4S can be had for. What do you guys think.

 

I admit that the Fuji idea has crossed my mind with the XT2, but I am very doubtful that the AF would hold up and I am not going to make the same mistake again. Mirrorless is wonderful for everything but rapidly moving targets and no mirrorless housing has proven that it can do it as well as a pro DSLR yet. The Fuji line has done just about everything right in my opinion and their lenses are really first class and I love the whole approach they have developed, but the AF????? The only approach I could think of would be using video on flying birds and pick good images, but you have a resolution problem when you do that so far. 

    I'd absolutely love a D500, but I'm spent out financially. 20mps for nature is plenty, and on APSc it takes a exceptional lens to out resolve the sensor, I often end up cropping at 6Mps or so and it still looks fine  enough for general prints.

 I agree with Vitantonio though, starting off with only 16.2 Mps on FF gives only  11 Mps crop, extra cropping for BIF, stretches the resulting Mps a little, but when you want to benefit from top IQ for landscapes, it's already thwarted!

  I think a practical combination is either the D500/ Nikor 200-500mm or maybe even better, the D500+ Sigma 150-600mm sport, both of which are great bang for buck.The extra 100mm of the Sigma is useful, I'm not so enamoured with tele-converters.

  APS-c for birding and a S/H  D800/E/810 for general shooting with it's great IQ. 



#9 JoJu

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 09:05 AM

If you want to go the Nikon lane, I suggest not mixing the pro concept with the advanced. Pro would be D500, 800E, 810, 4S; the bench concept to switch between user settings is so different for D7x0(0) with the two "safe banks" U1 and U2. At some time I really hated it and it changed. In the beginning I was used to D7000 and set it up to two main settings for low light and landscape the other. With D7100 and D750 I didn't bother any more with setting up their U positions and got more used to the 4 + 4 benches of D800 and D810.

If you favour a D800, do yourself the favour and get the E-version. It has the same disadvantage of very loud shutter (for birds) but contrast and resolution ARE better than D800. However, I would never go back from D810 to D800 models for a lot of reasons. First the much better damped and much more silent shutter, the higher and better resolving display for LiveView which makes focussing definitely better and the also much better AF. Especially AF-C. But don't expect miracles...

I'm very surprised at times what the Fuji X-E2 sometimes delivers as AF results and I have very high expectations for the X-T2, but I don't recommend it based on expectations. I want to see for myself. What I like on Fuji is the same I like with Sigma: they provide firmware which is not only bug fixing but sometimes gives you a new camera body and adds features you otherwise have to dig into your pockets again.

However for birders the FL ends at 400 and the 2 Teleconverters don't play in the same league as the new Nikon TC. That might change if Fuji decides to make a long prime, but so far the long range is a bit of a solitude.

#10 Klaus

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 11:20 AM

Hard to comment on this one.

 

What exactly was the problem with the E-M1 ? Dynamic range ?

I have a hard time to believe that resolution alone is really an issue on MFT (except induced by the hard mirror slap on the E-M1).

 

In general I would strongly recommend to go for a comparatively low resolution option. The EOS 5Ds ® is unforgiving (on pixel level) as far as tiny focus errors are concerned. Low resolution sensors can also be pushed to high ISOs thus high shutter speed. High shutter speed = better sharpness for birds in motion. Well, the regular forum readers know that I am less than thrilled by the high MP madness out there.

 

I suspect that you don't want to read EOS 1Dx II or D5 now ... 

FWIW, I will review the Fuji 100-400mm during the next 2 weeks although I doubt that I will do action photography.
The latest firmware on the X-T1 pushed the AF speed quite a bit. Whether it's up to your desired standards is something that I will not dare to comment on though.


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#11 Wolf

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 03:01 PM

I wrote a long reply to all of you and it would not post. I had signed in, so why would that be? I signed in again and now is looks to work. Oh well, I will try again later.



#12 Wolf

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 03:20 PM

Essentially, I was saying to klaus that the only major reason for changing from the EM1 is the AF tracking and the loss of seeing the subject when the EVF renews. Otherwise, MFT is fabulous and the Olympus system gives me everything I need for all my work, including studio with just the one exception of action photo, but that has become a deal breaker for me unfortunately. I could not dream of a better travelling system and the 75 f1.8 and the 40-150 f2.8 give me superb portraits, as do the 25 f1.8. The firmware update system is fantastic, like Fuji's and the fact that you can update lenses and housing in one shot is so easy. So no complaints in general about mirrorless, MFT and Olympus. Now, there are rumours about an EM2 for Fotokina and have any of you heard anything? At one point, the mirrorless manyfacturers will hopefully solve the phase detection problem and give us the Af tracking we all need. 

 

With respect to Fuji, I agree with all that has been said and could easily see myself using an XT2 if it were not for the AF tracking. 

 

Again I agree with Dave and Vinantonio's comments, which leads me in the direction of a D500 with the right lenses for normal work, plus the 300 f4 and the 200-500 or a Sigma 150-600 sport.

 

Thank you for all the replies and ideas, which will help me getting around my own thought process.



#13 Wolf

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 03:31 PM

I just checked the Olympus rumours and lo and behold it looks like there will be a new EM1 MKII to be sold as of September this year. The specifications are exciting, have a look here;

 

http://thenewcamera....lympus-rumors/ 

 

In short, a new 20MP sensor, new AF system for pro sports and action, dual card slots, etc. Maybe this is it!!



#14 JoJu

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Posted 02 August 2016 - 09:03 PM

So far, I don't find the Oly specs hotter than X-T2's. But I don't know much about Olympus, except I find a crop factor of 2 slightly too much. Specs aside, I think both target the same user group and might be slightly different, but in general both have good glass available and there won't be huge gaps in performance, no?

If it comes to 200-500 vs. 150-600, Dave had the same decision to do by deciding between Tamron or Sigma. I think, he did the best (and heaviest and least versatile, but highest quality) decision by going second hand genuine prime. Especially now, since Professionals throw their old 500 / 600 / 800 on the market to get the new, lighter, better and more expensive versions.

As for the 300: I have that PF E version and like the lightweight very much, but need to be careful with shutter speeds around 1/160 and 1/250. The VR has some weak spots there, I believe.

#15 Wolf

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 03:33 PM

I agree with you Joju that there may be small differences between the MFT and Fuji specs, but for the fact that I am all equipped in Olympus for the time being. If, by chance the EM1 MKII should have good AF tracking, it would be very much less expensive for me to get a new housing than selling all my gear and buying new; Nikon or Fuji. That is why I will wait and see what Olympus brings and if miracles happen, I'll stay with it. If not, I change.



#16 JoJu

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Posted 03 August 2016 - 10:43 PM

In another thread your describing your situation age, arthritis.

I see less than before that you want to step back and carry big DSLR equipment again. Especially because since there area already rumours about a Mk II of your Olympus, you will get even less. Same situation if one wants to sell DSLR now. If one gets the half price what it originally costed, it's a good deal... Okay, slightly exaggerating, 3/5 would be closer.

Of course, another thing is that your customers will expect you have a real camera and biiiiiig lenses which for a couple of people still has to have a mirror and being branded either Nikon or Canon.

#17 dave's clichés

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 05:18 PM

So far, I don't find the Oly specs hotter than X-T2's. But I don't know much about Olympus, except I find a crop factor of 2 slightly too much. Specs aside, I think both target the same user group and might be slightly different, but in general both have good glass available and there won't be huge gaps in performance, no?

If it comes to 200-500 vs. 150-600, Dave had the same decision to do by deciding between Tamron or Sigma. I think, he did the best (and heaviest and least versatile, but highest quality) decision by going second hand genuine prime. Especially now, since Professionals throw their old 500 / 600 / 800 on the market to get the new, lighter, better and more expensive versions.

As for the 300: I have that PF E version and like the lightweight very much, but need to be careful with shutter speeds around 1/160 and 1/250. The VR has some weak spots there, I believe.

What gear are you still shooting in Nikon JoJu? On the one hand I hear Fuji Fuji, on the other Nikon still pops up every now and then!

 I watched a video review of the new to be Fuji XT-2, a very impressive and beautiful camera indeed!



#18 JoJu

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Posted 05 August 2016 - 10:43 PM

I still have D810, the 85/1.4 and 4 fast Sigma primes, Micro Nikkor 105, 300/4, 14-24, and the Sigma 24-105 brick.

At the moment I don't see myself selling that because there is, coming with he downside of heavy weight, the advantage of a good compromise for image quality and versatility.

At the moment I also see myself not going on on this road, and if the X-T2 will be able to track objects and deliver sufficient low light pictures, some die-hard Nkon shooters might get happy. I was thinking about conversing some Sigma lenses to sigma mount for an SD Quattro, but as long as Sigma is not able to deliver contemporary 64-bit software on a Mac (but on Windows they can...) I don't have a reason to invest money in a probably dead end system. As much as I like Foveon IQ, I have limits in my patience, when it comes to wait for a rendering.

#19 Brightcolours

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Posted 07 August 2016 - 08:32 PM

I have been absent from the forum for a long time. during that time I sold all my Nikon gear, bought into Olympus EM1 with their best glass, including the 40-150 f2.8 + conv 1.4.  My photography includes wildlife, flying birds, nature and landscapes, travel, portraits and events and I print to A3+ at least. Unfortunately, the MFT sensor and the AF systems of the Olympus do not permit me to get the quality required for printing. I probably should have known, but I'm back to having to start all over. My thoughts are the Nikon D810 or D750 or D500 with the standard primes, 20, 35, 50, 85, 135 and the 200-500 f5.6 and/or the 300 f4VR with the converter. I could also go Canon. If I go Nikon, my main choice is between the D500 or one of the two full frames. 

I'd love to get the Pentaw K1, but the AF is not up to par for moving subjects so I forget that, but I really like the specs of that housing.

So Klaus, Brightcolours, all of you, give me your best input, because this is my last kit change and it needs to be the right one.

I imagine that wildlife and BIF is best done with a DSLR, and APS-C gives you more tele reach. You are used to Nikon, and the D500's AF system seems to be a step above that of the Canon 7D mk II. And Canon does not offer such an affordable 500mm option.

 

For the rest (Nature/landscapes/portraits) it depends on your lens choice (which depends on your personal preference and style) which camera suits you best.

 

In my opinion, FF's main advantage is possible less DOF. So, if very shallow DOF is not your objective, I think a D500 may be a good choice indeed.



#20 wim

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Posted 11 August 2016 - 09:33 PM

I agree with you Joju that there may be small differences between the MFT and Fuji specs, but for the fact that I am all equipped in Olympus for the time being. If, by chance the EM1 MKII should have good AF tracking, it would be very much less expensive for me to get a new housing than selling all my gear and buying new; Nikon or Fuji. That is why I will wait and see what Olympus brings and if miracles happen, I'll stay with it. If not, I change.

 

I'd suggest you wait till after the E-M1 MkII has appeared. You may also want to check out the PanaLeica 100-400 - it is a lens used by several (professional) wildlife shooters.

 

HTH, kind regards, Wim







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