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#1 Klaus

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 09:55 PM

... new action cams today ... 

 

Do they still exist ?


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#2 borisbg

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Posted 19 September 2016 - 11:46 PM

Nikon specializes in market invisibility and dead end developments lately.


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#3 JoJu

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 06:36 AM

Must have been after this heavy party their managers had when Canon's 5D IV came out. What can you design when you're drunk like a horse... 

 

drinb27x24.gif


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#4 Rover

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 08:08 AM

Cut them some slack - the recent releases have all been solid (D5, D500, a few interesting lenses like the 24/1.8, 24-70/2.8 VR and 200-500 - this was a very interesting batch). They just seem to have chosen a different timing.



#5 Brightcolours

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 08:14 AM

I agree, just because they have nothing lined up in time for photokina does not make them dead. And many manufacturers are announcing future cameras this photokina, not products ready for release. Nikon usually announces stuff when they are more or less ready for release.



#6 Klaus

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 08:22 AM

Well, they could have come up with a development announcement (like so many others).


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#7 JoJu

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 08:25 AM

Nikon is the single big manufacturer without a decent mirrorless system. And they were expected to present one. In fact, what Fuji can with their "medium format", Nikon can't do? Then they are dead. Not the short term, but all the offerings they made, Rover, are far away from innovative.

 

And there's nothing wrong with a development announcement. But leaving users unclear if there is development at all, gives only the very fanatic brand lovers a reason to buy into ... what?



#8 Rover

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 08:41 AM

Joachim, nowhere it is carved in stone that the DSLR are not long for this world. Besides, nobody knows what may or may not come along in, oh say, the ten year time frame. Frankly, if I had been a Nikon shooter, I would not have obsessed about the company not having a "decent" mirrorless system (I understand that you do not think the Nikon 1 system "decent": fair enough, it's an odd bunch of stuff, but it definitely is innovative - to borrow your word).

Does the Canon M system tick the "decency" box in your opinion? I'm a Canon user through and through, but if I had been buying into the mirrorless now, I would not be looking at the Canon M system at all because it's so skimpy - I'm 90% sure that I would have gone the Fuji route. There's nothing wrong with mix and match, apart from having to buy two sets of certain accessories like flashguns - but even in my Canon DSLR shooting day to day, I find that I'm only using flash like, uh, 1-2 times a month, and I'm usually not carrying it unless I know that I might run into some contra light conditions or something. YMMV.



#9 JoJu

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 09:24 AM

The DSLRs will remain for at least a decade, I guess, especially since a lot of DSLRs are bought because "I want a good camera aka DSLR". A lot of users see professionals with DSLR and make this conclusion.

 

Nikon however had the chance to make some things better than they actually are (as well as Canon still have). But Nikon appears to fall in agony and leave the photographic world to selfie sticks and smartphones. Maybe they are just tired, who knows, but to me they appear very much this way.

 

And it's not only two sets of flashguns, it's the lenses we bought in. I was ready to sell the Nikon stuff because I prefer to travel light. But now I saw a couple of shots I took last year with the D810 and the Sigma 20/1.4 wide open and I know, I will never get this bokeh from any APS-C (had to  be a 13/0.93).

 

This and a whole bunch of stuff like CamRanger, grip, remote cables I would have to give away for free. It is bloody costly to change or abandon a system and I'd prefer Nikon to deliver a decent FF mirrorless not only in 5 years. Especially because I'd like to invest in a tilt/shift lens and there's afaik nothing on the horizon of mirrorless, but who knows, maybe one firmware update of Fuji would bring focus stacking. Which is still not the same like one-shot tilted. Sigma had the chance to do something like this with their SD quattro, but they have bigger problems to solve than tilt/shift.



#10 Klaus

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 09:46 AM

Honestly I think Canon is more trapped than Nikon because the EOS Ms can't go FF ( I think at least ) and they will have a hard time to compete with MFT and Fuji. Nikon may go full throttle FF mirrorless at the CES already and thus compete with Sony.
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#11 JoJu

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 09:56 AM

I'm not in a hurry  :)

 

It's just that I don't see FF as a necessary or exclusive answer to "and how about IQ?" PhaseOne now announced 100MP, Fuji might be the replacment for the Pentax "MF" and an alternative for Leica "MF".



#12 Brightcolours

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 10:19 AM

Honestly I think Canon is more trapped than Nikon because the EOS Ms can't go FF ( I think at least ) and they will have a hard time to compete with MFT and Fuji. Nikon may go full throttle FF mirrorless at the CES already and thus compete with Sony.

Canon uses the same flange distance as the Sony E-mount. Canon also uses the same mount diameter as the Sony E-mount.

So in theory they can do the exact same thing Sony has done going from Nex to A7 series.

 

Besides that, NEX APS-C lenses are worthless for FE mount anyway, so it would not matter of Sony would have made a new mount for FE, as they need FF lenses for it anyhow.



#13 Klaus

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 10:28 AM

Canon uses the same flange distance as the Sony E-mount. Canon also uses the same mount diameter as the Sony E-mount.
So in theory they can do the exact same thing Sony has done going from Nex to A7 series.
 
Besides that, NEX APS-C lenses are worthless for FE mount anyway, so it would not matter of Sony would have made a new mount for FE, as they need FF lenses for it anyhow.


The issue is that they are obviously releasing APS-C lenses only at the moment. Thus even if the mount can do FF, they will struggle like Pentax in supporting FF out of the blue (albeit they certainly have substantially more capacity than Pentax).

I find it interesting that Sony pretty much abandoned APS-C. They have problably realised that Fuji/MFT were far ahead.
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#14 Brightcolours

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 10:32 AM

On the one hand, Sony pushes the A6300 (a very advanced mirrorless camera). On the other hand, most of the APS-C lenses for it are not that brilliant, they were from before the new found talent the show with the latest FE optics.

 

Canon still is in a better position concerning mirrorless than Nikon... Nikon also will need a whole new line of optics, whether they go APS-C, FF, or both.



#15 dave's clichés

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 11:38 AM

 I'm surprised that Nikon hasn't announced a mirror-less, how long can they leave it?

 

 If they have something in the pipeline they should say, if Nikon folk are looking are looking for a MLC they could have considered waiting, many may just buy Fuji/Nikon.........another moment missed!



#16 chrismiller

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 12:36 PM

Especially because I'd like to invest in a tilt/shift lens and there's afaik nothing on the horizon of mirrorless

 

Surely any manual tilt shif lens would be fine? Af isn't an issue and working stopped down with a mirrorless camera also isn't a problem. There are plenty to choose from, Canon FD, Samyang etc or you could use an adaptor (Kipon) to transform a lens for a larger image circle into a tilt shift lens.

 

Admittedly something like the canon 17mm would be difficult to create.



#17 Klaus

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 01:27 PM

Well... TS lenses can easily be used via adapter.
The new Laowa 12mm has a dedicated shift adapter for sony e.
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#18 Studor13

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 02:02 PM

Firstly, I am quite happy with the announcement of the K80. I wish it were swim-proof but it is what it is.

 

Sometimes I think that people only see their own immediate needs and not the big picture.

 

The K80 is actually for daughter. I showed her the “specs” and she just loves it. Nikon getting today's kids into their system is just as important as keeping the old geezers in the game. Maybe even more important.

 

As for mirrorless FF, just remember for how many years it was before Nikon brought out a FF behind Canon. I don't think anyone can say that Nikon's FF is years behind Canon or anyone else, right?


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#19 toni-a

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 02:35 PM

Nikon have a long time history of dedication for their mount, all their DX lenses can be mounted on full frame also  maybe they realized before it is too late that their Nikon 1 thing wasn't a great idea, most likely they will launch a mirrorless system that can take all their current lens lineup.

Canon has changed mount several times, from FD to T mount to EOS, they currently have EF EFs and EFM, and they won't hesitate making another mount or they will be more realistic and make a full frame mirrorless system compatible with their current lineup.

They have already a patent for a hybrid system that joins both worlds they have plenty of options.

So my guess expect a mirrorless system from Nikon able to adapt their current mount 



#20 Brightcolours

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 02:48 PM

Tony, it still makes NO sense to only remove the mirror from a DSLR and call it "mirrorless".

All you get is a frankenstein without the big advantage of mirrorless: possible small size with smaller wider angle lenses.

 

And Canon never has had a mount called T-mount. And Canon made the right choice going from FD to EOS, it got them the leading position which continues to this day.

 

If Nikon would be so daft to bring a mirrorless camera without a short flange distance, it is even more doomed from the start than Pentax' K01 and Sigma's new cameras.






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