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#21 JoJu

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 03:21 PM

Toni-A, both companies sold more than 100 million lenses. Each of them. This makes decisions more difficult. Also, the Nikon mount doesn't allow lenses faster than f/1.4 if the electrical contacts have to remain in place. Nikon would be stupid to stick with this mount and sell empty space (not more needed for a mirror). But if a new lens mount is inevitable, each other paradigm can also be questioned as it's a decision for the future.

 

And becoming compact but also FF or bigger doesn't necessarily belong together. It still has to remain operatable. Fiddly buttons are no goal and lengthy menus are not professional either. So, a certain surface is needed. I see the Sigma SD quattro as well designed although not compact-  but the buttons are well placed. I understand that for Sigma it would be hard to leave the people which invested in the exotic Sigma mount buy another set of slightly more compact lenses. Slightly, because they already try to increase the sensor size (APS-H). And if they try to approach FF size, it would b better not to start with smaller lenses in even smaller quantities, but stick to Sigma mount and allow other Sigma lens owners a mount change. That is still cheaper than selling old and buying new.



#22 Klaus

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 09:29 PM

I was wondering whether e.g. Canon's decision to introduce STM was meant as a preparation for a mirrorless camera. Same goes for Nikon's new AF-P.  STM/AF-P is optimized for movies and, honestly, DSLRs are the most stupid thing ever for movies - the mirror box is nothing short of alien in this world. Anyway, using adapters with STM/AF-P lenses should work like a breeze on a (true) mirrorless camera.

 

Even CaNikon will struggle to deliver the system baseline (in terms of lenses) in no time so initially they will try to advertise adapter solutions (just like Sony did in the beginning).


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#23 JoJu

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Posted 22 September 2016 - 09:14 AM

Nikon rumors (!) doesn't have anything better to do than to tell there's still possible to buy a D300s brandnew

 

:rolleyes: Exciting. I take half a dozen.

 

Didn't know Nikon became dealer of antique cameras  :lol: but then, it's understandable, after cooking the same soup over and over they can do it while asleep. Sweet dreams, Nikon.



#24 Rover

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Posted 22 September 2016 - 04:17 PM

You're cranky today, Joachim. :blink: But then again, are you ready to bail and switch to another system?  ;)



#25 JoJu

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Posted 22 September 2016 - 04:33 PM

I'm only cranky within my range of "normal condition"  :ph34r:

 

Well, on one side there are the yummy new Sigma lenses which could replace the 2 of the last 3 Nikkors.

 

:blink: Really?

 

*countingagain*

 

Really. The others are already Sigma.

 

Investing another 2.500 in DSLR... or take that money, sell the Nikon stuff and go GFX 50?

 

It's not a totally other system, I'm already used to Fuji's menus and handling. Also, a tilt-shift lens for this one is not that much more expensive than one for CaNikon - I had also the option to look for a tilt-shift adapter... well, but these are very wild dreams, photokina infected stuff.



#26 toni-a

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Posted 22 September 2016 - 05:32 PM

When we rethink at it, drone photography is getting more and more popular, action cameras have a very big market, with Nikon brand on them, they will be very competitive. They found a niche where none of the big names in photography is interested. Not bad at all as a move.
However having no new photography equipment at photokina isn't what we expect from a maker like Nikon

#27 Studor13

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Posted 22 September 2016 - 06:59 PM

I really don't understand all the people who keep saying Nikon came to Photokina with nothing.

 

The biggest event this year was the Olympics. For this Nikon had not one but two pro cameras ready.

 

If you add the 105mm f1.4 and the 300mm f4E (and maybe even the 200-500mm), Nikon brought to Photokina some very serious gear for everyone to have a close look at.

 

OK, something really went wrong with the DL cameras but please stop saying Nikon has nothing to show in 2016.


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#28 Brightcolours

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Posted 22 September 2016 - 07:17 PM

I agree, Canon and Nikon showed their big action cams earlier in the year, obviously not waiting for Photokina in fall. So, Nikon did not wait with the 105mm f1.4 till photokina. Big deal.



#29 JoJu

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Posted 23 September 2016 - 12:01 AM

I really don't understand all the people who keep saying Nikon came to Photokina with nothing.

 

The biggest event this year was the Olympics. For this Nikon had not one but two pro cameras ready.

 

If you add the 105mm f1.4 and the 300mm f4E (and maybe even the 200-500mm), Nikon brought to Photokina some very serious gear for everyone to have a close look at.

 

OK, something really went wrong with the DL cameras but please stop saying Nikon has nothing to show in 2016.

Canon also had a very good camera ready for the olympics. Pentax came up with a K1 which has very unique features you will not find in a Nikon. Also, the D500 was like 2 years late. A couple of websites see the crown of AF speed already taken away by the X-T2 which I doubt a bit - from a certain amount of "blown away / ...out of the water / ...outperformed" on I get rather sceptical. The fact is just, the X-T2 goes up to 14 fps (although supersilent), has a pretty precise AF and a decent WiFi at significant lower costs (just put a D500 with all the stuff I got with the Fuji in a basket - 800.- more, but not even a little flashgun included). Not enough lenses for sports/bird photogs, yes.

 

300/4 E PF? Please... I got mine in february 2015, so if you want to bring up new stuff then there are 500/4 and 600/4, the new 24-70 and two doublettes 18-55 and 70-300 - nothing to write home about. Plus the 200-500 which is already degraded again by Tamron's 150-600 MkII at a very competitive price.

 

Action cameras? How many years after GoPro are they trying to bite a piece of the cake? It's the same like the System 1, neat, performing as well, just somehow's not enough. 

 

Also, a China made 105/1.4 is simply overpriced at 2.2 k$

 

No, Andrew, that is nothing for what I would travel to Cologne. I was thinking today of going for Saturday, but then the fair is packed with people like me who want to touch the goodies and there are not enough for all... so, sanity wins. But I was close to it because of Sigma (what about a decent RAW-converter, guys?) and Fuji (will there be some firmware changes soon, I had some ideas...).

 

But Nikon? I saw the 105/1.4 already, a brick of plastic and glass, so what? I would not even approach their booth.



#30 Studor13

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Posted 23 September 2016 - 09:55 AM

 

But Nikon? I saw the 105/1.4 already, a brick of plastic and glass, so what? I would not even approach their booth.

 

I did hear that Nikon has a lot of pretty girls waving and smiling at their booths. 

 

Surely, that is the only reason to go to Photokina.

 

Gear, I can check out on the net but for hübsche Mädchen that's only good in the flesh, right?

 

Jokes aside, I still think that if it weren't an Olympic's year and Nikon came to Photokina with the D5/D500/105 1.4/500/4/600/4 and the new 24-70 you would not be so critical.

 

I see no difference between announcing these products earlier this year or in September. The difference, however, is that AFAIK they are all available today.


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#31 JoJu

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Posted 23 September 2016 - 10:01 AM

Except the DL with the bad circuit board  :(

 

I think, I'm so "critical" because a lot of my expectations -all, to be more precise-  regarding decent mirrorless for APS-C or even bigger than FF went into thin air.



#32 Rover

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Posted 23 September 2016 - 10:28 AM

Joachim, I think you're taking this stuff way too seriously. :) If anything, you could've gone there to see what the other manufacturers have brought to the table. If I'd been there, I would've been all over the place groping stuff left and right... And I don't mean the booth babes, mind you, just the equipment. Been a while since I had visited a photo fair, nevermind a big one - I for one would've liked to try the Sigma GV lenses as i've never held one in my hands. YMMV.
And finally... New announcements are mighty fine but how much of that stuff you would be getting anyway? I have to admit that I got one new Canon lens last year - the 16-35/4 - but I did that partly because I was so stoked by the glowing reports at Photozone and elsewhere, and partly because I wanted to get rid of the 16-35/2.8 that seemed jinxed to me. A few other new models got me contemplating, but nothing too acutely. YMMV again.

#33 JoJu

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Posted 23 September 2016 - 11:15 AM

This year I bought a bit more than just one lens, but of course, I also would have like to grab some things, maybe find a very good geared head, get an overview of flashes, talk to soem software guys. Irix lesn might also have been interesting, Sigma for sure (and what are GV lenses?)

 

I think I found a nice travel system with the Fuji X. I would have preferred to remain with Nikon and for the time until GFX will find the way to the market, I will keep it. But next year will be different.



#34 Rover

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Posted 23 September 2016 - 03:34 PM

GV - Global Vision. I was typing on a mobile and therefore in a hurry, to send it before the cell would go dead again between subway stations (as the proposed Wi-Fi network is not yet implemented down there). :)



#35 JoJu

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Posted 23 September 2016 - 08:25 PM

I would've been all over the place groping stuff left and right... And I don't mean the booth babes, mind you, just the equipment. ...

 

Sure, but these days it's not only booth babes, it's also blog babes, especially Rrrrussssiaaaan ones with a wide variety of ahem, expressions  girli15x19.gif  Sorry, it's the wrong brand but the right subject in this threads. Babes are definitely more entertaining than Nikon.

 

Klaus, I hope you still have this cute leopard style muscle shirt you could wear during the next lens test. It's not only sex that sells, it's basically a lot of skin. tongu15x18.gif



#36 toni-a

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Posted 23 September 2016 - 08:43 PM

To make things worst, a friend at photokina just told me that Nikons new action cameras are behind glass and you cannot try them



#37 JoJu

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Posted 23 September 2016 - 10:14 PM

Two possibilities:

 

The action cams are "weatherproof and shockresistant" but not touchproof.

or

"behind glass" is a reference to common action movies when usually a vast ammount of glass gets smashed. Camera - action - glass - lots of tiny pieces!

 

Everybody can screw a GoPro on a helmet and skydive into a volcano, but doing action on photokina... all douchebags?

 

Just recently watched "deadpool" for like the fourth time or so...



#38 borisbg

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Posted 24 September 2016 - 03:05 AM

Just to clarify:

My initial sarcasm / disappointment is because of lack of concept. I have no complains about their existing products (may be a little).

Ready to kill Nikon 1...

Not even a hint what is next in the pipeline?

105mm 1.4 - great, but for how many of us?

They are global player, a little bit more commitment and transparency will be pretty good. In case one wants to maintain loyal customers of course.

And given the downturn of the industry don't you want to keep your customers excited about upcoming products.

 

My experience for photography equipment expo:

I haven't been at Photokina, but I went last spring to one here in LA. Visitors gather mostly around Sony and Fuji (and drones) booths, the rest of the booths have slow flow of people. It is quite obvious where the excitement is.



#39 Klaus

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Posted 24 September 2016 - 08:42 AM

I think CaNikon suffer from a decease that seems typical for "old" companies - arrogance. If you look at the past five years, only the challengers produced road-maps or came up with development announcements. CaNikon - never (well, rarely) - because they simply think they are untouchable. Which is valid to some degree - photography is nothing short of a religious market. Just see the reaction around the EOS M5 - a probably good camera with a lens system that can't possibly be taken seriously yet the community screams with joy. Even the pope can't do any better than Canon or Nikon really.

 

I also strongly suspect that CaNikon have massive over-capacities due to the sharp downturn at the moment so consolidation is probably the top priority before anything else. The DSLRs of late were mild evolutions created with minimal investment.


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#40 toni-a

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Posted 27 September 2016 - 04:21 AM

Well seems Nikon 1 is not dead and Nikon investing inside
http://nikonrumors.c...-1-sensor.aspx/




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