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#21 mst

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 02:07 PM

Since you mentioned the swirly bokeh twice now: do you have links to examples? Not asking because of any doubt, but because I didn't follow other reviews or field reports about the lens (intentionally... I try to remain unbiased about lenses I haven't reviewed yet).

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#22 Brightcolours

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 02:30 PM

Sure :) , here are a few examples:

https://www.flickr.c...-nikon105mmf14/

https://www.flickr.c...-nikon105mmf14/

https://www.flickr.c...-nikon105mmf14/

https://www.flickr.c...-nikon105mmf14/

https://www.flickr.c...0478348/sizes/l

https://www.flickr.c...-nikon105mmf14/

https://www.flickr.c...-nikon105mmf14/

http://cdn-4.nikon-c...le-photo_05.jpg



#23 mst

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 02:43 PM

Thanks!

-- Markus
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#24 JoJu

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 02:50 PM

Remaining unbiased is an illusion, Markus  :lol:



#25 Rover

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 09:16 PM

Wanna bet the Mitakon 85mm f1.2 vignettes more than the new Samyang 85mm f1.2 because of that? 

No bets against the obvious - I can see that this is going to be the case. Again, I don't really care about MF lenses so I haven't been researching these, but if Photozone is ever going to review one of those, I'm going to read the article, if only out of pure curiosity.



#26 dave's clichés

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 10:26 PM

The heavy vignetting (and swirly bokeh) are both because of the narrow F-mount. A lovely lens nonetheless.

Oh how ironic the world can be, while we're talking about large aperture F mounts.

 

Lenstips review of the Mitakon 85mm F1.2 in the Nikon mount... the Mitakon's vigneting..I quote:

 

"Employing the maximum relative aperture you have to take into account the loss of 45% of light (−1.73 EV) in the frame corners. It is not a low value but still the Mitakon is better than the Canon which lost as much as 51% of light. By f/1.4 the vignetting decreases to 40% (−1.49 EV). Once again that value is quite high but you should remember that the huge Otus by f/1.4 lost as much as 56% of light!" 

 

  Out bayoneted the Nikon F mount?  No........ how's that for a rabbit out of the hat-trick?



#27 dave's clichés

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 10:35 PM

Haha, well, it's probably safe to assume that it's not a zoom lens... sorry, dave :)

 

-- Markus

 

   Hey I guessed it first time..  ;)

 

  Background bushes seem to be the 105's Achilles heel;

 

 https://www.dpreview.../thread/4063454

 

  Behind the sundial.



#28 JoJu

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Posted 23 January 2017 - 10:59 PM

About that "swirly bokeh": After seeing from the same photographer this here

 

https://www.flickr.c...-nikon105mmf14/

 

I start suspecting what other lenses would have done with the swirly background while try to getting that sharpness level  :rolleyes: smooth bokeh and super sharpness are contradictory. In doubt, I prefer to have a sharper lens as more blur can be added (within limits) in post.

 

If "necessary", I can get a "swirly" bokeh even from a 56/1.2 APD

i-BQMs7xC-X2.jpg



#29 Brightcolours

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 12:46 AM

Oh how ironic the world can be, while we're talking about large aperture F mounts.

 

Lenstips review of the Mitakon 85mm F1.2 in the Nikon mount... the Mitakon's vigneting..I quote:

 

"Employing the maximum relative aperture you have to take into account the loss of 45% of light (−1.73 EV) in the frame corners. It is not a low value but still the Mitakon is better than the Canon which lost as much as 51% of light. By f/1.4 the vignetting decreases to 40% (−1.49 EV). Once again that value is quite high but you should remember that the huge Otus by f/1.4 lost as much as 56% of light!" 

 

  Out bayoneted the Nikon F mount?  No........ how's that for a rabbit out of the hat-trick?

I think you are not taking into account lens design? The Canon lens is a very old design, going back to the end of the 1970's. That the current Canon with basically the same design, just a bit bigger back element, vignets a lot, it still vignets  less than the smaller mount diameter Canon FD relatives. There is more than one variable in vignetting.

The 55mm f1.2 lenses I have (you have) also a lot.

 

So yes, the 105mm f1.4 Nikkor vignets a lot due to the narrow mount's design limits. The Samyang 85mm f1.2 Vignets less than the Mitakon due to the wider mount diameter. 



#30 JoJu

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Posted 24 January 2017 - 06:44 AM

   Hey I guessed it first time..  ;)

 

  Background bushes seem to be the 105's Achilles heel;

 

 https://www.dpreview.../thread/4063454

 

  Behind the sundial.

 

Well, it's a bit abusing the lens. Being portrait specialist, I think the best proportions in distance for headshots are different from the ones we see in the picture. I don't want to defend an insanely priced product of China, but with some effort you can find weak spots in each lens design.



#31 dave's clichés

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 05:22 AM

Well, it's a bit abusing the lens. Being portrait specialist, I think the best proportions in distance for headshots are different from the ones we see in the picture. I don't want to defend an insanely priced product of China, but with some effort you can find weak spots in each lens design.

   Weak spot sometimes are viewed as "characteristics"  :rolleyes:

 

I think you are not taking into account lens design? The Canon lens is a very old design, going back to the end of the 1970's. That the current Canon with basically the same design, just a bit bigger back element, vignets a lot, it still vignets  less than the smaller mount diameter Canon FD relatives. There is more than one variable in vignetting.

The 55mm f1.2 lenses I have (you have) also a lot.

 

So yes, the 105mm f1.4 Nikkor vignets a lot due to the narrow mount's design limits. The Samyang 85mm f1.2 Vignets less than the Mitakon due to the wider mount diameter. 

 I'm not really taking anything into account BC, other than how some situations can turn things on their heads!   :D

   Of course the larger Canon flange diameter gives greater freedom to large aperture designs and why we have no Samyang F1.2 in the F mount, that's why the situation with the Nikon version Mikanon is so so fun, it breaks the rules.

 

  I love a spanner in the works of the rules of optics...........

   

                ...........and of course irony and cynicism and nonsense in general is probably what I enjoy the most in my old age,  I'll leave optical logic, good reasoning and being sensible to the young!  :P


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#32 JoJu

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 08:07 AM

Canon flange ø 54 mm, Nikon 47 mm, Contax 48 mm.

 

There was a manual focus Planar 85/1.2 for a jubilee edition (meaning, Zeiss celebrated the couple of extra bucks flowing in...  ^_^ ) And I'm sure, in some safes still are 85/1.2 jubilee edition Planars waiting for daylight - or more precise, the lights of an auction because of mint condition. I don't expect a lot of photographers who need to earn the money they spend would blow easily so much money on a highly impractical lens.

 

I don't see a reason, why one mm would make a huge difference in vignetting. But I also don't see the reason to buy a bloody manual focus lens with f/1.2, so if anyone asks for reasons, I just pass the question forward to people who love this kind of characteristics.  :lol:

 

weaknesses viewed as "characteristics"? Well, it's cheaper to let the marketing trainee write a characteristic poem than to redesign a weak design properly.  :rolleyes:



#33 Brightcolours

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 09:40 AM

1mm does not make a huge difference, the more mm you add the bigger the difference becomes, obviously.

Canon FD with 48mm mount diameter also had 85mm f1.2 lenses, they too show very heavy cats eye "issues". As do the 50mm, 55mm and 58mm f1.2 lenses on F mount and FL/FD mount.

 

I have two 55m f1.2 lenses, and only in the very center they show an actual bokeh disc. Moving slightly from the image center and you get cate eye shapes.

 

Nikkor-S•C 55mm f1.2:

70B8F8AAC7274E37AABA6B1BC6E513AA.jpg

Canon FL 55mm f1.2:

BFB0704FFC3443479F28095E725FD843.jpg



#34 mst

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 09:48 AM

This is so frustrating... 2nd day now that I wanted to spend shooting in the sun, but compared to the forecasts, the actual weather provided 'alternative facts'... which in this case means: gray skies and terrible light.

Meanwhile, let's continue with the lens' flaws... around 0.8% pincushion distortion. A bit more than I expected. I don't consider it a showstopper, though, especially not for the lens' primary purpose (portraits).

-- Markus
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#35 mst

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 09:50 AM

...........and of course irony and cynicism and nonsense in general is probably what I enjoy the most in my old age,  I'll leave optical logic, good reasoning and being sensible to the young!  :P


!! :)

-- Markus
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#36 Rover

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 01:19 PM

0,8% pincushion is nothing. We've seen worse... a lot worse.



#37 JoJu

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Posted 25 January 2017 - 01:31 PM

Well, for a 2 k$ lens and getting me a smaller nose than I actually have,,,  :rolleyes:

 

Talking of swirly bokeh (and riding another very old horse  :D ) DPReview updated the Sigma 85/1.4 gallery, I leave that to our bokeh experts: https://www.dpreview...-gallery-update

 

However, they can do the most bokehlicious glass, I'm still not ready to carry 1.1 kg extra. Maybe with a Sherpa-app or USB-carrierbot.



#38 mst

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 12:49 PM

Status update: sky is 18% grey again today...

Let's talk a bit about MTF instead. Excellent MTF, actually.
In the center.
At the borders.
And the corners.
At f/1.4 :)

-- Markus
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#39 Brightcolours

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Posted 26 January 2017 - 01:08 PM

It is a portrait lens. Go to a local mall and annoy random people taking their portraits ;)



#40 mst

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Posted 27 January 2017 - 04:10 PM

Clouds over Geneva today again, so it's official now: I will publish the review without sample images and add them later.

Lens balances fairly well on the big D3x, btw :)
 

-- Markus

 

kit.jpg


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