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Next PZ lens test report: Sigma AF 85mm f/1.4 DG HSM | A ("Art")


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#1 mst

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 03:18 PM

Unsurprisingly, performs great on the D3x:

http://www.photozone...sigma85f14artfx

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#2 JoJu

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 06:55 PM

"...amazingly sharp at f/1.4 alreada and the quality..."

 

Rover? Not at home?  :D 



#3 JoJu

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 07:12 PM

But besides that: It's obvious that your favourite is the 105/1.4 E

 

That has a bit more distortion and a strong bit more light falloff than the Sigma, it outresolves the dated sensor of your test camera. But in terms of bokeh fringing I would say, it doesn't deserve 5 stars - at f/2.8 the Sigma shows already less than the Nikon. This bokeh fringing is difficult to get rid off. If a portrait lens has to outresolve a 24 MP FF sensor I'm not that certain about - the 85/1.4 G doesn't and at times the reviewers were waxing some poetry around it.

 

The bokeh fringing of the 105 in my eyes is plain ugly at f/1.4

 

i-rLZrS9w-L.jpg



#4 dave's clichés

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 07:53 PM

 No doubt about it's general image quality and sharpness, a bonus is the lack of hard edging in the highlights, maybe only the Otus corrects bokeh fringing, as JoJu says it tough to eliminate.

 

    Also good to know that it's "capable of handling" (mis)treatments!  ;)

 

  A winner indeed.....BTW how was it's AF accuracy?

 

 

 

 

  Yes JoJu, on the 105 even the bokeh fringing has bokeh fringing!  :o



#5 JoJu

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 08:08 PM

I just wonder how many stars would a lens get with great sharpness and maybe being a true APO-lens no bokeh fringing. Yes, not possible.

 

At the moment.

 

And how long did we think some other performances and / or specs are not possible? Okay, then there's still the way out of not giving any stars like Klaus does when it comes to lenses in fron of an EOS 5DR s  :lol:



#6 Rover

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Posted 14 March 2017 - 08:31 PM

"...amazingly sharp at f/1.4 alreada and the quality..."

 

Rover? Not at home?  :D 

Sorry I have disappointed you but I was carrying out my sombre duties - giving my much beloved cat the last honors. Otherwise I would've jumped on a chance to read a brand new review. However, I feel I can rehabilitate myself by pointing out the fact that the review is missing from the main page.  <_<



#7 borisbg

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 07:10 AM

The link for this review is not on the home page

#8 JoJu

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 08:49 AM

Course it's not. First the proofreaders, then the normal mortals  :ph34r:

 

:lol:



#9 mst

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 10:00 AM

Right... exclusive content for active forum members and proofreaders (for a day ;) ).

 

Thanks for all the hints, all corrected, including the link on the main page... wasn't left out intentionally, just was a busy day yesterday and I got distracted after I started this thread.

 

Rover: really sorry to hear about your loss.

 

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#10 mst

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 01:19 PM

But besides that: It's obvious that your favourite is the 105/1.4 E


Well, maybe... I rated it higher mainly because of the even higher resolution wide open already.

Regarding bokeh fringing: please note that this is not a very "formal" test, in a sense that the setup is strictly the same for each lens. Angle and distance vary quite a bit.

And in real life, it depends a lot on the level of light and contrast in a scene whether a lens shows bokeh fringing (and how much of it). In fact, given some terrible light (think of the sparkling reflection of the sun in broken water), even true APO lenses still show bokeh fringing (tried with the AF-S 200/2 VR and the Leica Summicron-M 75/2.0)

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#11 mst

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 01:20 PM

A winner indeed.....BTW how was it's AF accuracy?


Perfectly fine... however, I never really had any reason to complain about AF issues on the D3x.

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#12 mst

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 01:22 PM

I just wonder how many stars would a lens get with great sharpness and maybe being a true APO-lens no bokeh fringing. Yes, not possible.


I'm afraid this is indeed a theoretical question :) Next upcoming contender might be the Zeiss ZF.2 135/2.0, an APO lens, but I have doubts that it will deliver similarly high resolution figures.

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#13 you2

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 02:18 PM

Well to prevent bokeh fringing you need an APO lens liek the voigtlander 105.

-

Saw markus comment about apo - i think that apo lenses significnatly reduce the fringing; however I'm not sure he is describing bokeh frinign or sensor bloom (purple on water); I think the thought on sensor bloom is angle of the light.



#14 JoJu

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 03:09 PM

Another lenstest-site is less convinced of the 105/1.4 E and more of the Sigma.

 

Since they are not using only a 24MP sensor, but one with 200MP plus optical element between lens and test sensor, I'm wondering how this totally opposite results are possible?

 

i-wgWgRV9.png

 

I wonder how both lenses would behave in direct comparison? All Zeiss Otii are Apo-lenses, and in lenscore's database the 135/2.0 Apo is also better than the 105/1.4 E

 

Meanhwile I really doubt if that dated D3 is still an appropriate reference for these tests.  :huh: ?



#15 Klaus

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Posted 15 March 2017 - 11:14 PM

Do you want us to move to a D810 ... with its 5 years old sensor ?

It's not as if we don't want to move up the food chain but it just doesn't make any sense at the moment.


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#16 JoJu

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 12:01 AM

What could I say to that question? Rumors are talking about a 46 MP D820, but currently Nikon is synonyme for agony. Actually, the "sharpest" sensor in Nikonland is in D800E which is a bit older and has definitely more shutter/mirror vibration than the D810 - but you made that one 2 years older: It was introduced to market in July 2014 - so not that old as the D3x (9 years, introduced in 2008).

 

It's just funny: The Nikon side is covered by a 24,5 MP FF model, outdated since at least 3 years. And the Canon side is represented by a 50 MP model, but there are no optical ratings for lenses... I'm asking why you're testing with that body?

 

Now, what do you want US to do? Stick with steampunk DSLR or get the newest one and hope somehow the sensor will take advantage of new lenses? You, Klaus, are more on the "50 MP is far too much to handle" side.

 

Me, too, as far as it's a "FF" sensor size. a bit bigger sensor and the 50 MP make sense, but for 24 × 36 mm there are rarely situations I can take full advantage of 36 MP. Be it my own tremor, shutter/mirror slap, weaknesses of lenses or too fast moving subjects in bad light conditions - 36 MP doesn't play it's full strength often.

 

Back to the lens: Any idea why at PZ the 105/1.4 E is clearly (according to the resolution charts) better than the Sigma 85 Art, which appears to have better resolution at lenscore (but then, where do they measure?).

 

As to bokeh fringing - in reality it's not so often to have the conditions of the ruler charts, so it might be less an issue than it appears to be at first look. But still, for this price it could be a bit better, at least not worse than the Sigma?



#17 JoJu

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 12:18 AM

In other words, it would be nice to have bokeh

 

i-tvW5gXd-XL.jpg

 

just without the fringing

 

i-Dv8HwNx-XL.jpg

 

because it's super-ugly. Having f/1.4, I just would love to use it occasionally  :D



#18 Klaus

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 02:12 AM

What could I say to that question? Rumors are talking about a 46 MP D820, but currently Nikon is synonyme for agony. Actually, the "sharpest" sensor in Nikonland is in D800E which is a bit older and has definitely more shutter/mirror vibration than the D810 - but you made that one 2 years older: It was introduced to market in July 2014 - so not that old as the D3x (9 years, introduced in 2008).

 

It's just funny: The Nikon side is covered by a 24,5 MP FF model, outdated since at least 3 years. And the Canon side is represented by a 50 MP model, but there are no optical ratings for lenses... I'm asking why you're testing with that body?

 

Now, what do you want US to do? Stick with steampunk DSLR or get the newest one and hope somehow the sensor will take advantage of new lenses? You, Klaus, are more on the "50 MP is far too much to handle" side.

 

Me, too, as far as it's a "FF" sensor size. a bit bigger sensor and the 50 MP make sense, but for 24 × 36 mm there are rarely situations I can take full advantage of 36 MP. Be it my own tremor, shutter/mirror slap, weaknesses of lenses or too fast moving subjects in bad light conditions - 36 MP doesn't play it's full strength often.

 

Back to the lens: Any idea why at PZ the 105/1.4 E is clearly (according to the resolution charts) better than the Sigma 85 Art, which appears to have better resolution at lenscore (but then, where do they measure?).

 

As to bokeh fringing - in reality it's not so often to have the conditions of the ruler charts, so it might be less an issue than it appears to be at first look. But still, for this price it could be a bit better, at least not worse than the Sigma?

 

 

The D800 was released in March 2012 - 5 years ago. The sensor has not been changed in any significant way in the D810 - thus we are still talking about a 5 years old sensor there. I assume that Nikon will wait till July (the date of the anniversary) for the announcement of the D820/850.

 

Why are you so stressed about the lack of a final rating in Canon land ? The 50mp sensor has been disruptive regarding its optical characteristics. We have now tested 12 lenses on it. I reckon I will do 3 more tests prior of providing ratings there. A single figure for the optical rating is controversial anyway - and it's misleading to some degree. 


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#19 Rover

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 07:06 AM

Thank you Markus!



#20 JoJu

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 07:32 AM

The D800 was released in March 2012 - 5 years ago. The sensor has not been changed in any significant way in the D810 - thus we are still talking about a 5 years old sensor there. I assume that Nikon will wait till July (the date of the anniversary) for the announcement of the D820/850.


The sensor itself might not have changed, the filters in front of it all are different! Be it D800, D800E, D810 - I get different results from each of them. And since even you don't dismount the filters, it's misleading to look only at the sensor. Total resolution remains, contrast is improved from D800 - D810 - D800E (in that order). So, if I'm getting different results depending in which body the "same" sensor is fitted in, I prefer to buy the best possible combination. As I was disappointed about the low-res LiveView in D800/D800E inclusive shutter shock and need the better AF, I exchanged the D800 to the better D810.

 

With the announcement you might be right, it's just a bit weird that the usual rumor sites don't talk anything. Okay, there's the MP rumor and knowing Nikon, this can be the "to be expected" predictable thing to do - while photographers jump ship towards an already available mirrorless system with no bigger form factor than a FF DSLR. If I would like to keep my customers, I'd tell them "something really good is about to come".
 

Why are you so stressed about the lack of a final rating in Canon land ? The 50mp sensor has been disruptive regarding its optical characteristics. We have now tested 12 lenses on it. I reckon I will do 3 more tests prior of providing ratings there. A single figure for the optical rating is controversial anyway - and it's misleading to some degree.


First, I'm not stressed at all.  :P

Second, being the single figure a controversal one and at the same time delivering all other tests with that single figure, is even more controversal.   :lol:






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