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The D7500 has arrived (@ 20mp)


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#1 Klaus

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 02:15 PM

http://imaging.nikon...eup/dslr/d7500/

 


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#2 JoJu

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 11:05 PM

Yaaawwwnn? bored20x18.gif

 

350,- cheaper than D500, slower fps and touchscreen not thought through. This touchscreen in only 1 axis articulated? Focus points selectable by touch only in LiveView? One more DSLR to remain in the shelves.

 

In camera AF adjustment - standard at D5 and D500 - not available? Right Nikon, do castrate your models just by software, customers will run for it  :lol:



#3 Klaus

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 12:12 AM

Well, they are in minimal efforts, maximum effect mode.

To be fair - Canon has been playing that game ever since the 50D. 

 

Let's face - what were the last "real" innovations in DSLR space ?

- Pentax in-body IS

- Sony's SLT 

Anything else ?

 

Ever since about 2010 new DSLR releases bored me to death.


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#4 JoJu

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 07:49 AM

I agreee.

 

Nikon's in-camera AF adjustment "kind-of-semi-automatic" comes in mind, even if a bit half hearted.

 

Pentax did a lot of things with moving sensor besides of in-body IS like high resolution multi-exposure, you even can shift the sensor a tiny bit and it has a star tracking mode.

 

Canon's dual AF also would come on the list. 



#5 JoJu

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 07:56 AM

After reading Nasim's comments, I have to correct myself (and guess where he knows that feature from?): There will be in-body-AF-adjustment. But no second card slot (pardon me? all D7xxx had that, why stopping now?) and no ability to use a grip (thank you Nikon, because your genuine grips suck without exception! expensive, made cheaply and wobbly, no additional use).
 
Nasim's final comment:
 

I will be honest with you though – I would much rather see DX lens releases. Nikon is putting yet another nail in its coffin by announcing more DX cameras than lenses…


Nothing to add from my side



#6 Brightcolours

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 07:56 AM

Well, they are in minimal efforts, maximum effect mode.
To be fair - Canon has been playing that game ever since the 50D. 
 
Let's face - what were the last "real" innovations in DSLR space ?
- Pentax in-body IS
- Sony's SLT 
Anything else ?
 
Ever since about 2010 new DSLR releases bored me to death.

Pentax did not come first with in-body IS, that was Konica-Minolta. Even the "SLT" was done way before Sony, by Canon going all the way back to 1965.
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#7 JoJu

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 08:10 AM

But Pentax did a bit more with the moving sensor. And the SLT is in DSLR world still unique - so why did not Canon refresh their invention? The disadvantage of SLT is loosing light for both, finder and sensor, so I just think, Canon didn't want to receive tons of negative comments about that.



#8 Brightcolours

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 08:26 AM

But Pentax did a bit more with the moving sensor. And the SLT is in DSLR world still unique - so why did not Canon refresh their invention? The disadvantage of SLT is loosing light for both, finder and sensor, so I just think, Canon didn't want to receive tons of negative comments about that.

If you look at Sony's SLT..

  • The first 2 models had ghost light issues due to bad implementation of the mirror.
  • Indeed, you do lose light to the imaging sensor.
  • You lose the OVF.
  • I have tried an SLT Sony a few times, and it is pretty horrid to see the too low frequency LCD flicker and lag and look harsh and not right.
  • You use live view all the time with the SLTs, creating sensor heat and wasting battery power.

I do not get the SLT idea. The Sony SLTs don't do anything better than normal DSLRs. Canon did not ditch the concept for no reason, I guess. Advancements in shutter and mirror mechanics (speed) made the pellicle mirror obsolete for them.



#9 JoJu

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 08:58 AM

Well the advantage is a steady mirror therefore in theory a faster fps without any highly precise AND robust mirror mechanics - this saves money for the manufacturer at first place. Speaking of battery life - this memory users of mirrorless cameras need to let go. At times I see the battery indicator bars walk out of the display. Walk, not run  :D but still, imagining a full day normal shooting with one battery - that's running into the trap of wishful thinking.



#10 Klaus

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 10:37 AM

No viewfinder blackout comes also into mind there (with full electronic shutter).

About the OVF - you may debate whether this is a disadvantage. ;-)

Due to the lack of mirror slap, it light loss is at least partially compensated.

 

Just mentioning - you will never realize the measured LW/PHs of the 5Ds R in the real world with activated mirror (the tests are done in live mode).


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#11 Brightcolours

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 10:50 AM

No viewfinder blackout comes also into mind there (with full electronic shutter).

About the OVF - you may debate whether this is a disadvantage. ;-)

Due to the lack of mirror slap, it light loss is at least partially compensated.

 

Just mentioning - you will never realize the measured LW/PHs of the 5Ds R in the real world with activated mirror (the tests are done in live mode).

No view finder black out only has a real value when tracking  something, and using high FPS. For that full electronic shutter is a disaster (due to the implementation issues).

No OVF for sure is a disadvantage. 

Unclear to me how "lack of mirror slap" compensates loss of light?



#12 JoJu

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 11:02 PM

No OVF is no disadvantage. Everbody ever used a state of the art EFV could agree. And what remains "unclear" to you, can remain unclear. If you never shoot ar higher fps and try to track moving objects, this black-out problem simply will never occur in your life.

I still try to figure out why Sony went this SLT way if they don't have an OVF. Are they using two sensors? Otherwise, why bring in a mirror if they use the same sensor for LiveView and recording a picture?

#13 Brightcolours

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 12:00 AM

No OVF is no disadvantage. Everbody ever used a state of the art EFV could agree. And what remains "unclear" to you, can remain unclear. If you never shoot ar higher fps and try to track moving objects, this black-out problem simply will never occur in your life.

I still try to figure out why Sony went this SLT way if they don't have an OVF. Are they using two sensors? Otherwise, why bring in a mirror if they use the same sensor for LiveView and recording a picture?

OVF is a disadvantage for many. Just not for all (you are an example of the latter).

About the black out "issue", you seem to want to argue, yet what you write agrees with what I said.

 

The SLT is to have PD AF and live view and video at the same time. The implementation sucked a bit concerning aperture possibilities/choices).



#14 dave's clichés

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 10:32 AM

Computer breakdown....finally back in!!

 

 Well it seems in Photozoneland that the D7500 isn't hitting the spot!

 

 Only one year ago Nikonians were on their knees for a replacement for the D300s, first the magnificent D500 at it's highish price and now the newer more affordable sibling.

 

  My take is it is a very decent sports DSLR that would have satisfied the needs of Nikon sports shooters had it been the first to arrive.

   That said it has been deliberately crippled by two things, the battery and the lack of a second card slot, why change the battery, it surely will kill many from having it as a second body, two sets of batteries?? then the single card slot? just stupid!

    Still for those who want a serious sports camera it will fill the bill and probably will do the job great.

 

    The D500 remains probably the only APSc camera I will ever need, it's just flat out the best sports body ever!! It's difficult to imagine apart from a niggle or two what could possibly be improved!  For those less exigent I'm sure the D7500 will do them sterling service!

 

   I'm just surprised at the yawns!!

 

  PS. I still remain an avid supporter of the traditional DSLR with it's optical viewfinder, ML doesn't as much as tempt me, but then I shoot wildlife!

 

  BTW. The AF auto calibration just isn't much use.



#15 mst

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 11:29 AM

That said it has been deliberately crippled by two things, the battery and the lack of a second card slot, why change the battery, it surely will kill many from having it as a second body, two sets of batteries?? then the single card slot? just stupid!


As far as I understand the new battery is backward compatible, so you can use it in other cameras as well as you can use the earlier model in the D7500.

Fully with you regarding the 2nd card slot, though. I honestly think that's a stupid move. I imagine though that they were afraid they'd make the D500 look less attractive, because for most that's probably a 1-slot camera too... not many are willing to spend big bucks on XQD cards and readers.

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#16 JoJu

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 11:38 AM

The battery changed only the name to EN-EL15a. I think that's the same what Fuji did from W126 to W126s - less temperature problems when videoing 4K. The charger is the same. No, Nikon just removed the possibility to add a battery grip. Do you bought one, dave? If not, just keep it that way. You can waste money on other well made things instead of overpriced junk  ^_^

 

If I wanted an APS-C Nikon with plastic body, I think I'd choose these days one of the D5xxx series, more bang for bucks. Or just go straight towards D500, as you say, that doesn't get any better. My "yaaawwwn" was because there's nothing really much better than on a D7200, but a couple of things are missing - again. Nikon is not listening or straight away ignoring. Cutting away the second Card slot AND degrading/limiting it to slower UHS-I cards is double stupid because there are loads of D7xxx models around which have that feature. And dave, your D500 has two different ones - do you use the more expensive XQD cards?

 

The more I look into Nasim's comparison the less attractive this D7500 appears. Touch display, nice. Use for set up focus points in normal PDAF? None. But battery life saving because instead of driving 2.359.000 dots now there are again 922.000, making manual focus a guess again.

 

Again, professional DX-lenses? Where are the new ones?

 

I must agree with the wildlife and DSLR. Compared to the Nikon bodies I know, the Fuji falls short in multiple terms, but it's not the body alone. Focus-by-wire lenses are like emergency wheels on cars - some kind of solution, but only half hearted. No manual override if it's a focus-by-wire lens, but yes, if it's one with focus clutch  :blink: wtf? The menu is full of this contradictive behaviors. How straightforward another menu system is, you only realize when learning a new one. Especially if the new one forces you to dive in because simple functions cannot be assigned to Fn buttons, although there are plenty of them around the camera, luring for accidental activation.  

 

But what do I complain about? It's only Nikon, and was about to be expected when bean-counters are responsible for camera design.



#17 dave's clichés

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 01:03 PM

The battery changed only the name to EN-EL15a. I think that's the same what Fuji did from W126 to W126s - less temperature problems when videoing 4K. The charger is the same. No, Nikon just removed the possibility to add a battery grip. Have you bought one, dave? If not, just keep it that way. You can waste money on other well made things instead of overpriced junk   ^_^

 

If I wanted an APS-C Nikon with plastic body, I think I'd choose these days one of the D5xxx series, more bang for bucks. Or just go straight towards D500, as you say, that doesn't get any better. My "yaaawwwn" was because there's nothing really much better than on a D7200, but a couple of things are missing - again. Nikon is not listening or straight away ignoring. Cutting away the second Card slot AND degrading/limiting it to slower UHS-I cards is double stupid because there are loads of D7xxx models around which have that feature. And dave, your D500 has two different ones - do you use the more expensive XQD cards?

 

The more I look into Nasim's comparison the less attractive this D7500 appears. Touch display, nice. Use for set up focus points in normal PDAF? None. But battery life saving because instead of driving 2.359.000 dots now there are again 922.000, making manual focus a guess again.

 

Again, professional DX-lenses? Where are the new ones?

 

I must agree with the wildlife and DSLR. Compared to the Nikon bodies I know, the Fuji falls short in multiple terms, but it's not the body alone. Focus-by-wire lenses are like emergency wheels on cars - some kind of solution, but only half hearted. No manual override if it's a focus-by-wire lens, but yes, if it's one with focus clutch  :blink: wtf? The menu is full of this contradictive behaviors. How straightforward another menu system is, you only realize when learning a new one. Especially if the new one forces you to dive in because simple functions cannot be assigned to Fn buttons, although there are plenty of them around the camera, luring for accidental activation.  

 

But what do I complain about? It's only Nikon, and was about to be expected when bean-counters are responsible for camera design.

According to DPreview it's 15% smaller in capacity, actually I automatically assumed that meant different physically.(I'll check)

  OK but!! It does shoot at 8 Fps for 50 RAW images, and that's very good! only 2 frames slower, in the real world I never foresee myself shooting 200.

  So if you are in the market for a cheaper D500 with "most of the bang", it's your baby, not everyone is so bothered by a plastic body. 

 My recommendation is go to the bank and ask the manager for a loan of the difference in price and buy the D500, it's got it all!

 

BTW it's a sports camera, (not a landscape or dedicated portrait camera)....there's plenty of telephoto lenses, I wouldn't buy one that didn't cover both APSc and FF!



#18 JoJu

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 01:26 PM

Yeah, telephoto lenses, but what if you don't want a FF for wide-angles? There's a nice 10-24 DX zoom which I liked to use, but it's comparatively slow around f/4

 

And the 15% less shots were in comparison to D500, not in comparison to EN-EL15 vs the new "a" version. Two different cameras can mean different power consumptions although I don't see much of higher consuming elements? Oh, right, the inbuilt flash - if that goes in the CIPA measurements, then it's clear - don't use the thing.

 

USB 3.0 to USB 2.0 is another diff (tethered shooting...)

 

Yes, at this price point I DO mind plastic bodies and they are more sensitive to heat.

 

So, you might like this thingy, I just turn my head to hide my tears about doomed Nikon  :unsure:

 

:lol:



#19 dave's clichés

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 01:45 PM

Doomed Nikon :D

 

Buy the Tamron 10-24mm G2 for $500!

 

  I don't know if you have a Nikon APSc body for your Tammy G2 AO22? 



#20 dave's clichés

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 03:05 PM

"As far as I understand the new battery is backward compatible, so you can use it in other cameras as well as you can use the earlier model in the D7500."

Fully with you regarding the 2nd card slot, though. I honestly think that's a stupid move. I imagine though that they were afraid they'd make the D500 look less attractive, because for most that's probably a 1-slot camera too... not many are willing to spend big bucks on XQD cards and readers.

-- Markus

  If that is  the case, fair enough!






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