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So finally ... the Nikon D850


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#41 mst

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 03:05 PM

With a macro lens there's no need to be afraid of focus breathing by making a stack of pictures with a limited range of focus-distance.


This is the point where BC has a different opinion. And me too, actually ;)

And I don't see that as Nikon bashing, even though BC admittedly has a history of doing so. Focus breathing on macro lenses, especially modern ones (IF designs) is a given and one of the possible reasons why Nikon did not add in-camera stacking of the results.
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#42 JoJu

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 04:21 PM

The list of cameras with inbuilt focus stacking would be really short, but I might be wrong on that. Sony? Pentax? Olympus? Would be my list to search for that feature in a camera.

I just think how long it took Nikon to put in the comparatively simple technique of adjusting AFMA for PDAF by using LiveView focus positions. They are not exactly flooding the market with these kind of inventions. So I also think, Nikon waited that long with focus stacking because they are not the fastest company, not because of concerns against focus breathing

Anyway, I don't recall any problems with reallife focus stacks, so I remain highly sceptical about the role of that constructed issue. But I also used to take care of the backgrounds. Which is easy because due to the needed software and computer (so far) it's more an inside technique, less so in nature. Although there are people using it on insects.

#43 Studor13

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 04:24 PM

No doubt Nikon has a number of reasons for why they didn't add in-camera stacking but from my experience with panos I found that it is far better to do it in LR. The end result is truly amazing even if you shoot hand held and don't have the horizontal and verticals levelled. 

 

The main benefit is that a DNG file of sort is created and can be “Developed” like a RAW file. That is, you have full control of all the parameters.

 

It also takes a far bit of time to crunch even 7 images. Now imagine 300?

 

So, if there was in-camera auto stacking you are for sure to get a huge amount of wait time before you can take your next image.

 

For those who prefer to marvel at some of the new D850 features this link below will give you pure joy.

 

D850 new features.

 


From the sunny side of the Alps.

#44 JoJu

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Posted 26 August 2017 - 05:34 PM

Don't tempt me too much. I said I will wait for a couple of weeks to find out if the series product delivers what the pre-series promised. Now I found my finger already dangerously close to an "order" button ;)

Not long ago I basically was ready to change ship after a long series of time consuming AFMA adjustments and asking why Nikon didn't put it in camera. Then D500 arrived and I was already thinking about getting me one, but thought, if it has to be APS-C, Fuji still gives the lighter package. Then I bumped into the unexpected sharpness of another Sigma lens, just the D810 struggles to AF it in dark conditions, using the outer focus points.

With the D850 I will get a D500 as well with a bit less fps.

#45 Studor13

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 07:08 AM

It's a real shame that some people jump straight into the negatives and not marvel at the positives. And I don't necessarily mean here on PZ.

 

For example, no one that I'm aware of has mentioned 8K timelapse.

 

This is mind boggling if you like the Ken Burns effect. It means that you can do say a 10 second timelapse where you can go in any direction - left, right, in, out, sideways - wherever you want without losing ANY resolution for HD. 4K, I'm not sure but I don't do 4K anyway.

 

Other things like the joystick for AF which was previously only available in the D4/5 series. Not to mention the best-ever view finder!

 

Truly amazing things for a $3300 body. Yes I know it's US$ but the good wife is in the States at the moment. I have to somehow get her to stay there but I doubt that the cameras will ship until October.


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#46 JoJu

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 08:23 AM

It's a real shame that some people jump straight into the negatives and not marvel at the positives. ....
 
Truly amazing things for a $3300 body. Yes I know it's US$ but the good wife is in the States at the moment. I have to somehow get her to stay there but I doubt that the cameras will ship until October.


Shipping in CH starts from Sep. 7th, Nikon told me. But the other question is, how many bodies will make it to CH and how many people want one after this flush of mostly pretty cool features? The X-T20 i.e. is still nowhere to find here.

Basically, I find marvelling as difficult als criticizing something I neither tried nor have seen. I don't want to becoma oart of a hype and suddenly have to wake up and admitting the feature would have been great if they would have got the usability bette.

The feature set is great, no doubt, but Nikon today has a history of production problems thanks to forums which muliply evey statistically to be expected mistake to a big issue. Very often it was although serious (like the left/right side missed focus with the outer focus points) so hardly noticeable. i had to use a wide open lens to find a bit of missed focus and I wasn't sure if it's the focus point or a curved field problem of the lens...

#47 mst

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 11:52 AM

Other things like the joystick for AF which was previously only available in the D4/5 series.


And the D500. Which is great, so the D500 and the D8500 feature almost identical control layout. Which makes them the obvious choice for a 2-body FX + DX setup.

Not to mention the best-ever view finder!


Yup, should be great... wander if it still accepts the enlarging eye-piece I use on the D3x ;)

The only thing I really don't like about Nikon's latest high-end models is their continued support of XQD-cards. Would have preferred two slots of the same kind.
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#48 JoJu

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 02:56 PM

There's no big choice when it comes to cards. I could not find SD cards fast as XQDs at writing speed. But these beasts are expensive, gosh! The SD cards have the advantage that there are tons of readers out for them. I have no clear opininon about that, the D810 also has mixed slots. And the D850 only wil be as fast as the slowest card...

#49 mst

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 03:35 PM

Well, yes, that's the issue, fast, but terribly expensive. And limited selection of readers.

I'll probably stick to SD for a while...
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#50 Studor13

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Posted 27 August 2017 - 04:37 PM

Some of this guy's videos have been way over the top but this is actually quite good.

 

And that burger thing at 25 sec is pure marketing genuis. It maybe “cheesy” but you're gonna remember it.

 

Kai D850


From the sunny side of the Alps.

#51 JoJu

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 03:50 PM

Preorders in CH are massive. It appears Nikon triggered a lot of wishes with the new camera. Now it's about time to update some old lenses which by far are not up to the new sensor. Or, as Jordan from the camera store TV put it: "throw their Nikkors away and get Sigma Art"

 

With a glance at the latest Canon offerings I can't help to be envy, even if I see that the D850 is a better package with more value than current top FF bodies from Canon.



#52 Rover

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 09:00 AM

So, Markus... is it going to be the new FX testing platform? If yes, are you going to cease D3X reviews until you get the new camera?



#53 miro

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 10:27 AM

I have one question. Maybe it is off topic

Does anybody have actual sells data of full frame cameras?  How many percentage or units are sold last year, quarter or month?

 

My subjective perception is that modern FF dSLRs are soaring the 6x6 IQ, price, weight and size. I wonder do they share the same sells segment

While the smartphone camera are following 35mm route – just deliver the IQ for media used by average person. Back in time media was 10x15 -> 13x18cm.  prints for photoalbums/books, nowadays is HD screen



#54 JoJu

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 11:44 AM

You could ask Google, but reliable numbers are difficult to get, the Chinese market is a more closed one.

 

However, as much as I like resolution and sharpness of current "FF" bodies, I still see a gap between them and real MF backs. I do like the pictures of a D810 on a 80×30 cm double page in an album better than any affordable print before, so I also slightly disagree with viewing sizes: Although in general you're right, but I didn't buy a highres cam for this size of prints.



#55 miro

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 01:03 PM

Thanks for replay JoJu,

I have no doubt – there are areas where you still need 35mm SLRs.

My concern is that they become a tiny niche product. The results are high prices, low development.

Results are already available

– touch screen appears 17 years after consumer products.

-        The pioneer Back lit sensor that Nikon uses in D820 – was already available in small size for 10 years.

 

PS: I still remembered the time when every house has camera and 80..90% of then ware 35mm

Novadays every house has 3..5 cameras – and most of them are smartphone. I was curious to know,  how many FF units sells Canon Sony and Nikon .



#56 JoJu

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 01:14 PM

It's a D850, not D820, and the touch screens appeared before - although not in high-end DSLRs. Sony is not so shy to use this approved  tech since a while. Nikon is one of the most conservative manufacturers.

 

As for the backlit sensors: I don't know, but 858 mm2 is a challenge to make and pack 53.263 pixels on each mm2 (sometimes I exercise my calculator ^_^ ) 

 

If one bought a camera before digital, there was already a choice to fumble in 135 or 120 rolls or get a 126 or 110 pack and just ram it in a camera like a tape cassette. Lateron APS films offered a bit more comfort, but basically professional cameras were much more expensive than they are these days - concerning the annual salaries.



#57 mst

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 08:53 PM

So, Markus... is it going to be the new FX testing platform? If yes, are you going to cease D3X reviews until you get the new camera?


Yes and no ;)
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#58 JoJu

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Posted 30 August 2017 - 10:01 PM

The new camera (=D850) could become a long awaited item... My goodness, you go from bronze age towards flickr...



#59 JoJu

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 03:22 PM

Over at PetaPixel are some ISO 25.600 examples. Not mindblowing... Hrrrm, that is looking at them with the normal expectation of waht to get out of the camera at ISO up  to 3.200, but that's still 3 stops faster. Desaturated, but still usable. I'm just very curious how it will focus at -4 / -3 EV (in center / outer focuspoints)



#60 Studor13

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Posted 31 August 2017 - 03:46 PM

The rich blacks, contrasty strings and the beautiful worn corners of ISO 25600 bass contra shots tells you everything.

Truly amazing!
From the sunny side of the Alps.




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