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Next PZ Lens Test Report: Nikon AF 85mm f/1.4 D (FX)
#11
[quote name='borisbg' timestamp='1281415746' post='1616']

How does it balance with the D3x? [/quote]



Great, IMO.



[quote name='borisbg' timestamp='1281415746' post='1616']

Did you enjoy using it?

[/quote]



I always enjoy using fast glass <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />



-- Markus
Editor
opticallimits.com

#12
Thanks for the (once again) excellent review, Markus. I had the same problems with the 85/1.4 on my D80 back in 2008 when I bought the lens brand new, profiting from the weak Dollar. The focus shift led to many, many misfocused shots at wide open aperture. This was the reason I sold it although it was probably one if not the most beloved lens I ever had (I had a soft spot for the 105VR).



[quote name='mst' timestamp='1281360249' post='1607']

Now, the real question is: are any of the possible improvements really field relevant ... for such a lens?

[/quote]



It depends on the camera. The higher the contrast and resolution of a lens wide open, the better the data for noise algorithms to work with. Besides the benefit of having a shallow dof, I buy and use f/1.4 lenses mainly for their light gathering ability in available light photography. And using only an Fuji S5, despite her once good NR performance, the demands today for clean ISO 1600 images make an efficient NR software more desirable than ever. It is sometimes better to stop the lens down half a stop to get better contrast and edge definition while raising the ISO than to shot wide open as clever NR software can overcompensate the increase in noise with better contoure definition. In other words: motif dependend, the trade of sacrificing textuer detail for edge definition is often profitable, but has to be made in the first place because wide open performance is siginificant lower than a bit stopped down.



Chris
#13
Hi Markus,

[quote name='mst' timestamp='1281360249' post='1607']

Not so sure about it. Judging from initial measurements, the ZF 85 seems to give slightly better sharpness in the borders, but doesn't really like close focus. I have no real hopes the Sigma 85 is any better than the "ancient" Nikkor, but maybe the (hopefully) upcoming AF-S 85/1.4 is ...[/quote]

Keyword here is slightly, I think, and that is what I meant. When you get to this class of lenses, the end results are in the rendering and PP, not in the quality the lens delivers. <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='B)' />

Quote:Now, the real question is: are any of the possible improvements really field relevant ... for such a lens?



Yes, focus adjustment is available on the D3x (as well on quite a few "lesser" cameras). However, the LoCA shots are done at rather close focus. Any focus error at close focus will of course be more visible at larger distances. A few milli meters may easily become a few meters (allthough often not visible with slower glass because well buried within DOF).

I don't think so, because focus shift is relative, and at larger distances (let's say > 2 m) focus shift disappears. At least, that is my experience with lenses that display focus shift (Sigma 50 F/1.4, 50L, 85L II <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Big Grin' />). IOW, not because it disappears with DoF (that too at smaller apertures), but because it literally disappears slowly with distance, to disappear completely from a certain distance onwards.

Quote:Just went through this with the Leica 75/2.0 APO (another lens I failed to fall in love with, btw.) Just slightly off at close focus (0.7m), but already almost 1 meter off at around 8 meters.

Interesting. Not completely APO then <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Smile' />. Also interesting that the focus shift doesn't get less with distance. Quite a different experience from the one I had so far.

Quote:Hmm, not so sure about this one. LoCAs as short form of longitudinal chromatic aberration seems well established to me, it's used by many other sites as well (DxO, for example).



On the other hand, I have honestly never heard of spherochromaticity before. Which is true for many other, probably well established phrases, too <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Big Grin' /> however a google search did not really shed additional light on this word, too (just 4 hits).



-- Markus

Well, it is as it is I guess. It is the official term for longitudinal CAs.



Kind regards, Wim
Gear: Canon EOS R with 3 primes and 2 zooms, 4 EF-R adapters, Canon EOS 5 (analog), 9 Canon EF primes, a lone Canon EF zoom, 2 extenders, 2 converters, tubes; Olympus OM-D 1 Mk II & Pen F with 12 primes, 6 zooms, and 3 Metabones EF-MFT adapters ....
#14
[quote name='TheChris' timestamp='1281441031' post='1625']

The focus shift led to many, many misfocused shots at wide open aperture. This was the reason I sold it

[/quote]



The focus shift occurs when you stop down, not when it is wide open, no?
#15
[quote name='edge' timestamp='1281449156' post='1636']

The focus shift occurs when you stop down, not when it is wide open, no?

[/quote]

Yes. Very well observed. IOW, something else was at play <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='B)' />.



Kind regards, Wim
Gear: Canon EOS R with 3 primes and 2 zooms, 4 EF-R adapters, Canon EOS 5 (analog), 9 Canon EF primes, a lone Canon EF zoom, 2 extenders, 2 converters, tubes; Olympus OM-D 1 Mk II & Pen F with 12 primes, 6 zooms, and 3 Metabones EF-MFT adapters ....
#16
[quote name='mst' timestamp='1281342151' post='1592']

http://www.opticallimits.com/nikon_ff/53...rafd8514ff



-- Markus

[/quote]



Thanks for the review, Markus. This only confirms my belief that the lens really needs an update in all areas (AF and optics). You are spot on with your ratings. The lens design is ancient (by today's standards): look at the leap in performance between the old 28 f1.4D and new 24 f1.4G. We should expect a similar jump when the rumored AF-S 85 1.4 debuts soon.



best regards,

Simon
#17
[quote name='wim' timestamp='1281447464' post='1633']

Keyword here is slightly, I think, and that is what I meant. When you get to this class of lenses, the end results are in the rendering and PP, not in the quality the lens delivers. <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Big Grin' />[/quote]



Yep. Still, I have some hope the AF-S will be better. Not much, though. In fact, I usually tend to be rather pessimistic ... but prepared for the best <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='B)' />



[quote name='wim' timestamp='1281447464' post='1633']

I don't think so, because focus shift is relative, and at larger distances (let's say > 2 m) focus shift disappears. At least, that is my experience with lenses that display focus shift (Sigma 50 F/1.4, 50L, 85L II <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Smile' />). IOW, not because it disappears with DoF (that too at smaller apertures), but because it literally disappears slowly with distance, to disappear completely from a certain distance onwards.[/quote]



I see some potential for additional review work here <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Big Grin' /> Seriously though: from my experience the focus shift remains visible in normal working distances with these lenses. At least with the Sigma ...



[quote name='wim' timestamp='1281447464' post='1633']

Interesting. Not completely APO then <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Smile' />. Also interesting that the focus shift doesn't get less with distance. Quite a different experience from the one I had so far.[/quote]



Nope, only focus miscalibration. The lens was simply backfocusing, and that becomes more obvious with larger subject distance.



I haven't tested for focus shift, yet, but you're right about not being an APO lens ... at least not in the sense we usually look at it (truely apochromatic). It shows a considerable amount of LoCAs.



[quote name='wim' timestamp='1281447464' post='1633']

Well, it is as it is I guess. It is the official term for longitudinal CAs.

[/quote]



Well, I was just wondering, because I couldn't find really useful information.



However, to get to the point that's probably more important (people mixing up lateral CAs and LoCAs): maybe we should add some links to a lens test FAQ or place some short explanations within the reviews.



-- Markus
Editor
opticallimits.com

#18
[quote name='mst' timestamp='1281450844' post='1645']

Yep. Still, I have some hope the AF-S will be better. Not much, though. In fact, I usually tend to be rather pessimistic ... but prepared for the best <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='B)' />

[/quote]

LOL

Quote:I see some potential for additional review work here <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Big Grin' /> Seriously though: from my experience the focus shift remains visible in normal working distances with these lenses. At least with the Sigma ...

I'm afraid it may vary from copy to copy. I tested two different Sigma 50s a few years ago (I think; first one about half a year after they first appeared on the shelves), spaced about 6 months apart.. Both had some focus shift, worst at F/2, of about 1 cm at a focusing distance of 50 cm. At F/2.8 no longer noticeable, and neither beyond about 1.5 m, but then at longer distances both frontfocused rather badly, one to a degree where anything beyond 5 m was unusable (couldn't focus further away), and the other from about 8 m.



Ah well. I did test 5 50Ls in order to get the one I currently own, over a period of a little over a year <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Big Grin' />. My 85L II actually has a little more focus shift than the 50L, so I guess that is a very good score <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Smile' />.

Quote:Nope, only focus miscalibration. The lens was simply backfocusing, and that becomes more obvious with larger subject distance.

Ah, ok, I was wondering already <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Smile' />. However, one wouldn't expect that with an expensive Leica lens...

Quote:I haven't tested for focus shift, yet, but you're right about not being an APO lens ... at least not in the sense we usually look at it (truely apochromatic). It shows a considerable amount of LoCAs.



Well, I was just wondering, because I couldn't find really useful information.

Yes, difficult to find on the internet for sure. Most people do use longitudinal CAs for this, but normal CAs are sharp, these ones aren't, as they are in the OOF areas, and they have a completely different origin, hence my suggestion for the actual optical fault name.

Quote:However, to get to the point that's probably more important (people mixing up lateral CAs and LoCAs): maybe we should add some links to a lens test FAQ or place some short explanations within the reviews.



-- Markus

Maybe with some sample photographs to show the difference, including where they appear? Maybe also some for PF as well, as that is a different beast altogether too <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Big Grin' />.



Kind regards, Wim
Gear: Canon EOS R with 3 primes and 2 zooms, 4 EF-R adapters, Canon EOS 5 (analog), 9 Canon EF primes, a lone Canon EF zoom, 2 extenders, 2 converters, tubes; Olympus OM-D 1 Mk II & Pen F with 12 primes, 6 zooms, and 3 Metabones EF-MFT adapters ....
#19
[quote name='mst' timestamp='1281342151' post='1592']

http://www.opticallimits.com/nikon_ff/53...rafd8514ff



-- Markus

[/quote]



Don't let the morons (well, actually it's most one...) over @ dpreview.com pull you down. Nice review. Keep it up!
#20
[quote name='BG_Home' timestamp='1281476357' post='1653']

Don't let the morons (well, actually it's most one...) over @ dpreview.com pull you down. Nice review. Keep it up!

[/quote]



Thanks, Basil! Don't worry, we prepared for a lot more than this. I was actually slightly disappointed that there have been no yellow dressed Ninja's in my wardrobe this morning ...



-- Markus
Editor
opticallimits.com

  


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