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Mirrorless cameras - (often) form over function?
The Contax RTS to me looks rather... SLR from its time. The one that impressed me (and after all this time has had the biggest influence) was the Canon T90, designed by Luigi Colari (and Canon).
(07-13-2019, 04:43 PM)Brightcolours Wrote: The Contax RTS to me looks rather... SLR from its time. The one that impressed me (and after all this time has had the biggest influence) was the Canon T90, designed by Luigi Colari (and Canon).

1974: Contax RTS
1986: Canon T90 (by Luigi Colani)

Check out which cameras were around in 1974, then you'll see how advanced it's design was. Its was also Kyocera bringing a vacuum film plate made of ceramics into the RTS III. I prefer Contax' design over the Colani which for me didn't go far enough, the grip could be more ergonomic and the shift of the battery compartment looks weird. But that's a matter of personal taste.
I don't see much difference between for instance a Canon F-1 and a Contax RTS?

The T90 is the big shift between SLRs and the AF SLR/DSLR design language, including the top LCD with a lot of information (and automation), and the controls.
My take: New Sigma is fresh for FF, yet no viewfinder is a no-go. 

If I would be a full time professional, bigger cameras might be interesting. However as an enthusiast I value smaller size. Cameras like Pana G80/90 or EOS R are very comfortable to hold. Never bothered pinky to end below the camera. OTOH, Canon UI certainly doesn’t work for me, I vastly prefer Pana here.

Actually, with mirrorless, fully functional rangefinder style became possible again, compared to film days when RF style sacrificed focusing capabilities that made SLRs cameras of the choice at the time. Lately, I enjoy GX80/GX9 as good compromise of very solid UI and small size. Benefit of VF in the left corner is nose not interfering with the screen. I love touch screen interface to move focus point quickly, compromised only when screen gets wet. Together with ability to put AF point anywhere in the frame are great new features of today.
No EVF with no visible grip ........ electronic shutter only ....... image scan speed halves in 14 bit ....... looks like a lot of drawbacks just because it's small!
and the lack of a VF means shooting at arms length .... seriously?
Dave's clichés
I totally agree with you, dave. It is not good/perfect for anything, not for an FF stills solution and not for serious video solution.
(07-11-2019, 09:46 PM)Klaus Wrote: While I quite like the new Sigma FP from a concept perspective, I'm wondering where the industry is heading in terms of product usability.

In the DSLR world, basically all cameras converged around the same design principals - a grip, a front- and a rear-dial to control things and navigation buttons/joystick for navigating through the camera menu.
If you know one DSLR, you know them all - roughly speaking. Cameras that didn't follow the basics vanished into history. 

Not so in the mirrorless segment. As you know, this is clearly the place to be for me personally. However, I have to say that there are quite some freak products out there.

* why is a 'historic' layout with a EV compensation dial on the top a good thing? (many Fuji, Sony) There is a reason why this was abandoned on DSLRs in the early 90s. It's nice looking but it is just cumbersome in real life IMHO. 
* what happened to a reasonable grip? (Sigma, many Fujis/Pana/Oly)  Given the overall size with the lens, a grip doesn't add any really bulk in your bag.
* Whenever I touch a Sony A7xxx I wonder what Sony thought when they designed all these hard edges. It's just uncomfortable to hold. What happened to rounded designs? Bauhaus may be good for buildings but cameras?
* Is a (tiny) touch screen really a good thing on a system camera - at all?

I, for one, like to have a camera that is comfortable to hold and where it is possible to adjust settings with my hands not leaving the default positions while being able to keep looking through the viewfinder. Is that asking too much really?

Or am I just an old sack unwilling to accept the better new ways?

PS: In my book, the EOS R and Pana G9/G95 (probably also the Nikon Zs) are good designs but ... well ... these follow DSLR guidelines.

I totally agree about the EV compensation on top. On my Pen-F I seem to have a propensity to knock this thing into another positions just carrying it around. I wish they would allow me to disable it in firmware. Or perhaps made it so you had to lift it to turn.

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