Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Nikon Neglect?
The thing is, OL is free. Hence, they have zero obligation to do anything. There is no contract between OL and visitors. Were it a paid service, it would be a different story.
I've enjoyed PZ during its time and now OL as well and I fully understand why reviews have slowed down and I fully accept it, regardless of the reasons, eventhough I wish it would be the way it was back then. I'd much rather have a slow paced OL than any other commercial or free (but with low credibility) sites out there.

Flickr gallery
(11-15-2019, 12:23 PM)thxbb12 Wrote: The thing is, OL is free. Hence, they have zero obligation to do anything. There is no contract between OL and visitors. Were it a paid service, it would be a different story.
I've enjoyed PZ during its time and now OL as well and I fully understand why reviews have slowed down and I fully accept it, regardless of the reasons, eventhough I wish it would be the way it was back then. I'd much rather have a slow paced OL than any other commercial or free (but with low credibility) sites out there.

Thing is, just because "it is free" does not mean one can't have issues with something in whatever way. 
I don't understand Markus' reasons, as they are not known as far as I know. I do not have to know either. I also understand that people criticise the lack of Nikon related lens reviews for instance. No, you can't DEMAND reviews, that is obvious, nor should one sue OL over that. You can, however, complain about or point out the lack of them.

I prefer no car over being in one that explodes. Does that mean I can't mention/complain about/point out the lack of a car? Your last point is a silly one, is what that silly example of mine is meant to convey.
(11-15-2019, 11:58 AM)Brightcolours Wrote: To be fair, would not be up to JoJu to him to make the decision to take over Nikon reviews for OL. And I doubt that OL would be open for any such suggestion, anyway. The stagnation of reviews for the Nikon platform(s) on PZ and now OL is a fact, as is that they apparently are missed. I do not blame Markus in any way for not having time, or drive, for them. But (like with other things here, like sharpening) a real conversation about this is not appreciated by Klaus. Yes, I know that JoJu words things aggressively, I am often the target of that and often disagree. But that does not mean that in between there are no valid remarks.

On a side note, I bet there are no donations by Nikon users for years now  ;-)
On another side note, I don't think it is just the Nikon lens part that has slowed down, there are MANY other lenses that have not been reviewed, for years. Just the Nikon platform(s) show the most glaring hiatus.

Yet another side note: There are NOT many lens review sites that try to do a serious job. I know just two: PZ/OL and Lenstip. Others are too superficial or too flawed to take seriously (looking at you, DXOmark Wink ).

    I'm there is more to a lens review that just the willingness to do it ..... and with the plethora of new lenses coming from all angles it would be some sort of task to tackle even half of them.
  ..... Ephotozine does the most tests, but they are the least detailed.
   Cameralabs does very good tests with comparisons to near or older models, with tons of resolution charts, followed by crops etc. His best series was with the 150-600mm, each FL at each F stop and so on, all under one roof ........ I thought they were two or three guys, but he's all on his own, seven days a week!
   Utube reviews have an advantage in that they can show say, stabilization in video, AF speeds, Christopher Frost does detailed reviews but only lenses that are or adapt to the Canon mount.
 Oh, you lost your bet BC!
Complaining about the lack of Nikon reviews and faulting OL for it is not exactly constructive and won't change this state of affair. What's the point other than giving silly examples or attacking others?
That's the thing, you should be grateful for what Klaus, Markus and Seb in the past and maybe others have done.
If the user base here is just a bunch of complainers then the motivation to continue with reviews (for free) wouldn't very high, would it?
Try for one second to put yourselves in other people's shoes. It's called tolerance and it's not silly one bit.

Flickr gallery
So the user base should be a bunch of ass kissers/brown nosers?

Grateful? One can appreciate PZ/OL reviews, while also not appreciating the lack of new ones. These things are not mutually exclusive at all.

I do appreciate that PZ/OL have done reviews of lenses. I care a bit less about Nikon lens tests myself. I do understand other people's frustration about the lack on PZ/OL Nikon coverage (how is that putting myself in other people's shoes, "silly" tnxb12? (notice that I put that in quotes, not trying to insult you). If you care to read more carefully, I nowhere complain about Markus making/having no time for his review hobby. I still find your arguing against all criticism JoJu voiced "silly". How about reading and responding with more nuance.
@BC: I also understand Joju's frustration. I wish there were more reviews as well.
However, I'm grateful for what OL has done so far and I don't feel that being rude to OL about this lack of new reviews is constructive in any shape or form.
You may disagree but there is no need to be disrespectful or unplaisant.
This is my point. Nothing else.
With that said, I'm done here as I don't feel like feeding your silly attacks.

Flickr gallery
Oh, now it is "my attacks"? Gee. Just contrasted what you wrote.

At least my post made you respond with more nuance.
I'm not frustrated. But I'm tired to read the excuse of "life happens and therefore no longer Nikon reviews". Life happens to all of us and part of life is to find different ways and solutions to upcoming problems. Here, however, I see only standstill. I'm talking of OL as site owner, not of Markus, not of Klaus who keeps reviews coming.

If there's a wish of PZ/OL to continue Nikon lens testing, it would be an idea to reach out for help, unless the site owners are convinced that this can only be done by Markus.

And it's not as if Nikon would be hammering out 3 lenses a week. Of course it's a lot of work and of course I also appreciate what has been done in the past. There's also passion involved. But I also recall that Klaus sometimes complained that OL pays on top to publish new reviews. This is not ok and should not be the case, but what kind of reason a Nikon owner would currently have to donate? Except researching for old lens models tested on dated bodies?

So, as suggestions:

Why not ask for a small amount of money on a regular basis and make us pay for what we consume? Certain magazines or newspapers allow me to dowload articles - after I paid a small fee.
In a non-Paypal way as I will not use a company which has a reputation of weird business behaviour.
In the early days the lenses were borrowed to PZ by readers which then would at least solve the loss of money by renting it from a company or buy and sell at a loss. But even if I would borrow some of my lenses to Markus: When would he find the time to review? For how long would I be without them?

The basic decision will be: Should OL run the site as a side-hobby? Then we are spoilt already, but what about the motivation of Klaus and Markus (I don't recall the third guy the "donations" article is taking about)? Or should it make money? Then some things need to be handled differently than now. Or just leave it like it is, ignore the critics and keep on doing reviews for fun?

What surprises me is that Markus usually doesn't participate in discussions, but occassionally shows a lifesign when the question of "no new Nikon reviews?" appears. What kind of motivation is needed to start the propeller and how can we help?
Sebastian is the 3rd guy.

Can we please stop the blame game and also please stop any speculation about what happened that kept me from writing reviews for so long? And can we also please not turn this into a competition of who has more life to handle? I was tempted to give you a sneek peak into some of the details, but thinking about it all day, let me please be very clear: this is none of your business (with 'you' in this context being the whole audience here and not a particular forum member). All I want to share is that it was not a single incident that dragged me away from here for a foreseeable time, it was a chain of things happening, often out of nowhere and unexpectedly, and quite often when I just felt things would calm down and I could move on with reviews again. That's why you occasionally got some feedback from myself here, that's also why I kept getting new gear for reviews, not to intentionally create a pile to hopefully work on some day, but because I felt ready for it... and then something else with higher priority showed up again. I don't need any advice of the kind like "hey, just learn to handle it". I learned, many times now, and I am moving forward. It's been a difficult time, frustrating for sure, not only for myself but also for Klaus, whom I can not thank enough for being very understanding and incredibly patient.

Please accept that outside of this forum there are many other things that have a much higher priority for me and deserve my full attention, dedication and commitment more than lens reviews. Still, despite all the excuses I could come up with for the past, I feel guilty for not having published anything for so long. And I honestly can't wait for that to change again.

It does not need anything to motivate me, JoJu. All I need is some spare time. No donation can buy that. And talking about donations: lack of funding is not the issue we're having. Both Klaus and me are fully motivated and fortunately able to invest time (if available), but also some money into the reviews. To give you an example: There are currently 12 camera bodies here, including the now retired D3x, that served PZ/OL as well as me reliably for more than a decade (even though I am really tempted to do just one more and final review with it, just out of nostalgia). 3 bodies I regularly use for my own photographic needs, all the other ones are current or retired cameras that were only bought for reviews. On top we need regular software updates, modern hardware to process the increasingly bigger files, storage for current review data and to archive old ones. Getting the lenses for reviews is just one of many aspects of the funding OL needs.

Also, some work happens behind the scenes that you don't necessarily see mentioned anywhere. The test charts need regular care, it takes some time to build new ones (like the LED bokeh chart Klaus came up with, I have one, too, now). Layouts and templates have changed and sometimes things need to be updated in all reviews (the initial publication date can be found in all reviews for a while already, did anyone notice that? That was manual work). And on my side, unfortunately all cameras I used in the past are outdated by now. Most of the new ones are already around (still waiting for the X-T30 and the Z50 to be delivered), but it takes some time to set up new review workflows for each and calibrate the parameters. It's something that needs to be done and finished before I can publish anything again. I could sit down and publish reviews based on the old review cameras, sure, but who would want to read them?

No, unfortunately it's not that easy to find someone else to fill the gap temporarily. It would most of all require a lot of time to teach someone how to do it, including all the things that could go wrong and how to recognize and avoid them. If I had that time, I could just do the reviews myself instead.

Yes, some things need to change for OL to survive, most of all the rate we publish reviews at. But it is and always has been something we did in our spare time, and I personally don't want to change that.

I have been here before reviews as we know them started (first review was Canon 50mmf1.8 on 350D) although some user reviews and reviews by Klaus himself were posted before but they were quite basic, even one of Klaus film days reviews used a loupe on 10x15cm prints to check sharpness.... However wasn't exclusively a reviews site.
At some time photozone team jumped the wave and went into lens reviews and brought the website to worldwide fame, however it wasn't always like that, however this place has always been good to be for photography enthusiasts

Forum Jump:

Users browsing this thread:
2 Guest(s)