04-11-2012, 06:54 AM
[quote name='wim' timestamp='1334082333' post='17424']
Using Zone System techniques it is possible to get 15-16 stops recorded at about 10 stops (or less) on film, and printed in about 5 stops on a print.
From that POV it is possible to get 15-16 stops in print, but all it means that one can compress the tonal scale enough to display fully within 5 stops. In a way, one could see this as single shot HDR <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
' />. Not entirely, but close enough... <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />. And this works well in B&W, not so with colour negatives or slides.
Other than that, Ansel Adams always did a lot of burning and dodging too, which is also why no two of his prints of the same negative are exactly the same. And essentially, one could see burning and dodging as a localized HDR technique <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />.
BTW, burning and dodging is something I do a lot to this day, even with digital.
Kind regards, Wim
[/quote]
Thank you, Wim. I see it better now. As far as I understand, the Zone System technique itself does compress the DR, what it does in the recording process is to "map" the tone of the scene onto the film (more or less) in a way designed by the photographer. So, when you say "Using Zone System techniques it is possible to get 15-16 stops recorded at about 10 stops (or less) on film" I guess you also mean using the GND filters to compress the DR. Am I right?
So, if GND filters (or digital HDR) are used, the DR that can be recorded by films/sensors are extended. Without these DR compression techniques, the "intrinsic recordable DR" of modern digital sensors indeed already exceeds the "intrinsic recordable DR" of even B&W films, if I understand your comments correctly.
Best regards,
Frank
Using Zone System techniques it is possible to get 15-16 stops recorded at about 10 stops (or less) on film, and printed in about 5 stops on a print.
From that POV it is possible to get 15-16 stops in print, but all it means that one can compress the tonal scale enough to display fully within 5 stops. In a way, one could see this as single shot HDR <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
' />. Not entirely, but close enough... <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />. And this works well in B&W, not so with colour negatives or slides.Other than that, Ansel Adams always did a lot of burning and dodging too, which is also why no two of his prints of the same negative are exactly the same. And essentially, one could see burning and dodging as a localized HDR technique <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
' />.BTW, burning and dodging is something I do a lot to this day, even with digital.
Kind regards, Wim
[/quote]
Thank you, Wim. I see it better now. As far as I understand, the Zone System technique itself does compress the DR, what it does in the recording process is to "map" the tone of the scene onto the film (more or less) in a way designed by the photographer. So, when you say "Using Zone System techniques it is possible to get 15-16 stops recorded at about 10 stops (or less) on film" I guess you also mean using the GND filters to compress the DR. Am I right?
So, if GND filters (or digital HDR) are used, the DR that can be recorded by films/sensors are extended. Without these DR compression techniques, the "intrinsic recordable DR" of modern digital sensors indeed already exceeds the "intrinsic recordable DR" of even B&W films, if I understand your comments correctly.
Best regards,
Frank