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And we got there (no more Lightroom standalone)
Maybe I missed something here.

It would seem that people don’t like Adobe, think Photoshop, Lightroom, Elements, and the rest of their software is crap.

So, why not buy whatever it is that is bettter?

The cost of it all is one cup of coffee in a cafe once a week.

Oh, wait. It’s the principle. Please!
Yes, it's the principle, because I want to own the things I use (fundamental right: private property). For instance, I buy my cameras and lenses, and I own them forever (specifically, I own the hardware and a perpetual license to run the firmware on it). I don't have to pay fees to Sony for using them. Exactly like my car, my laptop, my TV set, etc... My music too - after having downloaded MP3 for a while, and being harassed about formats and digital rights, I quickly reverted to buying physical supports (and converting them to MP3 for using them on multiple devices). Sure, sometimes I might like to rent something (a car), paying a fee for time period, but it's something I want to be able to choose when I want, and not being imposed.



Sony a6300, Sony a6000, Sony NEX-6, Sony E 10-18mm F4 OSS, Sony Zeiss Vario-Tessar T* E 16-70mm F4 ZA OSS, Sony FE 70-200mm F4 G OSS, Sigma 150-600mm Æ’/5-6.3 DG OS HSM Contemporary, Samyang 12mm Æ’/2, Sigma 30mm F2.8 DN | A, Meyer Gorlitz Trioplan 100mm Æ’/2.8, Samyang 8mm Æ’/3.5 fish-eye II | Zenit Helios 44-2 58mm Æ’/2 
Plus some legacy Nikkor lenses.
like all companies Adobe wants to earn money and it's clear subscriptions are more profitable for them.

Never got into lightroom, OEM RAW converters are often excellent, capture one is bundled with Sony cameras, doesn't Sony offer image organizing software like canon zoombrowzer EX ?

Rawtherapee is excellent and free


DXO 9 is free also

only competition will make adobe change her attitude
Quote:Oh, wait. It’s the principle. Please!

The principle, not to put myself in a desperate dependency of one of the most capitalistic software brands. Not to deliver my pictures as hostages to a company which has no reason to not increase their prices as soon as they covered more installed PCs of users who don't mind to spend two cup of coffees per week but drink only one. Too good to not jump in?


20 GB of cloud space? And what do I do with the 308 th RAW file? And the next hundreds following? 20 GB is ridiculous in terms of diskspace for pictures. In SmugMug, 20 GB are 3600 pictures - JPGs, of course.


More than one time Adobe behaved and acted like they don't gice a shit on software problems caused by their products. It's this kind of greedy arrogance which keeps me far away from using their products at home - if I have troubles with them in the office, I'm paid for writing a mail or ten, my time is ticking while I try to fix their not overly well designed software.


At home, my time is precious to me. And my nerves as well. There's nothing wrong to avoid huge companies.


Oh, and since you threw in the insurance company: They actually get paid for covering a risk and they do, if harm has happened, millions of €, if necessary. I have a one year contract with them - if they dare to increase their prices, it's me who accepts or quits the contract.


With Adobe's CC concept, it's you who has to pay every price they ask for. Otherwise the software will stop working. You will not lose all adjustments at the moment you can't or don't want to pay the fee - but you cannot change them anymore.

I'm in with JoJu on this. This whole model reeks as a way to make more money from the average consumer. Really, there's no reason I shouldn't be able to by LR or any other software flat out and use it for 5ish years and then move on. Or upgrade for a small fee of course.


With this subscription model $10 doesn't sound like much and you get so much out of (sarcam here). The reality is in 5 years you'll have spent $600. Compare that to paying $140 once. My bet is Adobe will, if they haven't already, find ways to up-charge you along the way. Even more so, I'll bet in a couple of years they'll raise the subscription fee a couple of bucks on you. Oh, It's just a couple of bucks a month!


While this model works OK for industry where we push the hell out of our software tools and are always chasing the bleeding edge and need the software tools to keep up us, IMO it's just gauging the consumer who will never fully utilize these tools. The reality is PS is overkill for most photographers, and unfortunately elements isn't enough (strategic to offer you an upgrade path to PS?).


Personally, I've always liked Silkypix over LR and can never understand the negative reviews on it. Which basically say the flow is different than LR. For heaven's sake!


I also just got a free Corel suite with the purchase of my last lens which has Aftershot, their version of LR, and Paintshop Pro X9 which I would say is more like a PS light and much better than Elements. I'm still adapting to the work flow, but overall they're pretty good tools. I like that they have pop ups (yes you can disable them), that give you learning/flow tips and lead you through the editing flow. Their support is excellent too. I was surprised how fast I got a response to a question and nice follow ups making sure I was OK.


The suite also came with Mystical Ultimate (oooh!), which is kind of like an Instagram photo editor. It can be fun actually Big Grin

I liked LR in the past, I still admire the library functions and Photoshop has no real alternative for me for what it does. 


I've left LR for Capture One a few years ago and never really looked back. Still paid the subscription fee on a monthly basis because the catalogs are nice, all my older photos are still in LR (and I was an idiot for converting the Sony RAWs into DNGs, which Capture One For Sony wouldn't work with at that time) and Photoshop was useful as always.


However, it all changed overnight. One file got corrupted somehow and I was unable to launch Creative Cloud launcher, nor any of the installed software. It simply says Adobe Application Manager is damaged. Can't uninstall or reinstall neither. There is a fix for that provided by Adobe, but that fails as well. Asked my IT guy and he said this had happened to him before and only way to fix everything is to reformat the drive and reinstall Windows.




I didn't mind the subscription service, nor the price. Even though it had logged me out a few times too often. LR Mobile had crashed once which made it unable to update any of the shared catalogs but I was even fine with that, never had any use for LR Mobile anyway. 


But all these happening because everything is so connected now and they can't fix this even though I'm paying them monthly? Nope, not anymore. 

Oh and while I said I was fine with the subscription service and the price, get this:


I got my first LR copy with a discount when I bought my Nex 7. 70$ instead of 120$ or so, if I remember correctly. I had LR3 on trial before that and had gotten LR4 with the Nex 7. It was a huge difference between those two versions. I'd absolutely pay for the upgrade price.


Then came LR5 out. No major changes, I didn't care about any of them. But I just got the A7 which wouldn't work with the LR4. Very shortly afterwards, CC service was announced.


I had done some maths at that time. Subscription price for LR alone would come up to buying every upgrade license for every version. I was changing cameras rather often back then, so I figured I'd have to pay for the upgrade anyway. So why not pay them and get a Photoshop license alongside as well. It's good value, when you think about it.


On the other hand, I did end up paying for the license upgrade even though I wouldn't need any of the new features. I don't think anything worthwhile came to LR or PS in the meantime. I'd be absolutely happy with Photoshop CS5 or CS6. Did not upgrade from my A7 neither, so maybe I should've just bought a LR5 upgrade and stop at that. 


In the meantime, my LR4 license is absolutely worthless right now. Subscription price was the same whether I had a previous license or not. No additional discount or anything. 


Long story short, Adobe managed to get money from me by releasing a LR version every year, so they wouldn't have to support new cameras in the older versions. Once they introduced a new way of getting my money constantly, they stopped with introducing new and useful features at all.

Quote:I want to own the things I use (fundamental right: private property). 


The cause of just about every major conflict on the planet is because of this attitude.

<p style="font-size:12px;"> 

<p style="font-size:12px;">Some people think that if they buy a piece of land then they own it and can do whatever they like with it. For example, if they dig a hole and find oil they actually think that it's theirs.

<p style="font-size:12px;"> 

<p style="font-size:12px;">I was once shooting late at night on a field which was about 500m from the nearest house. 

<p style="font-size:12px;"> 

<p style="font-size:12px;">The farmer came screaming down in his car and asked what I was doing on “his land”. I told him I was photographing the stars. Maybe he thinks that the stars above “his land” are his.

<p style="font-size:12px;"> 

<p style="font-size:12px;">You don't own any of Adobe's software. You just have the right to use it - on their terms.

<p style="font-size:12px;"> 

<p style="font-size:12px;">If you don't like their terms go somewhere else. It's very simple.

<p style="font-size:12px;"> 

<p style="font-size:12px;">We pay some 130€ per month on internet connection, internet TV and mobile calls/SMS package. I don't watch much TV, and the only person I call is my wife. Lightroom CC is less than 10% of this. It is really cheap for what I get.

<p style="font-size:12px;"> 

<p style="font-size:12px;">Like I said, it's the cost of a cup of coffee once a week. Principle or not, if you have a problem with this then you really have a problem.
In England a farmer can come with a rifle and force you to leave his land - and get away with it, Be grateful or humble instead mouthing against "this attitude". You're not on his land, you were walking over his work. If he already made bad experiences with strangers, it's at least understandable although opposite of friendly.


Was ever any person from Adobe or an institution in the name of Adobe checking if you follow their EULA word by word? Were you ever reading that crap? In theory you're right, in reality nobody cares unless you hurt there benefits.


Next time I slam you in your face - if you don't like it, go somewhere else. I'm not sure if you have any idea how mindboggingly f***ing stupid this sentence is.


You just don't want to see the obvious and want to stay right - fine. If someone sees it different it would be now the moment to follow your own rule:  "If you don't like their terms go somewhere else. It's very simple." 

Quote:  "If you don't like their terms go somewhere else. It's very simple." 

Well that could be right if they had real competitors, or viable alternatives and you weren't heavily dependent on their product for your workflow.

That is called  "abuse of dominant position" and Microsoft had to pay a hefty fine for it 
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