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Itch for new compact
#11
Just arrived in the post and charging the battery now. Don't know if I will take it out and use it yet as it is rather wet outside...
<a class="bbc_url" href="http://snowporing.deviantart.com/">dA</a> Canon 7D2, 7D, 5D2, 600D, 450D, 300D IR modified, 1D, EF-S 10-18, 15-85, EF 35/2, 85/1.8, 135/2, 70-300L, 100-400L, MP-E65, Zeiss 2/50, Sigma 150 macro, 120-300/2.8, Samyang 8mm fisheye, Olympus E-P1, Panasonic 20/1.7, Sony HX9V, Fuji X100.
#12
Quote:I'm curious about your comments about the HX20V as it doesn't compare closely with the HX9V I have. I understand the HX20V has a bit more zoom and even more MP, but wasn't aware if they changed much else. The GPS in the HX9V is very slow at locking even with clear skies. I'm sure the hardware is capable of much more potential, but it is crippled by the interface.


The diffraction limiting effects are harder to quantify. Putting aside the theory, raw samples I've seen from the SX50 taken at maximum zoom look good to me. Check out the RAW samples posted by AlanF in [url=http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=14011.0]this[/yrl] thread. I did think though, the 1200mm equiv. is a bit less if you consider the higher MP count within the field of view of a DSLR assuming you crop to an equal 12MP. Regardless, to me photography hardware is not always about "the best of the best" but about "good enough for the job". I think the SX50 is capable of providing that in my case.


And finally, not the 100-400L dust pump myth again... it is no worse than any other extending zoom. I use the lens a lot and rarely clean the sensor, perhaps 2 or 3 times a year if that. The biggest risk of dust entry is when you take the lens off. It doesn't matter how much sealing the lens has in that case.
 

gps: I had also the HX5V, the hx20v is probably not much better than that. but I do download the assist data files, without that, it is very slow.   With the dataset, it takes perhaps 1-2 minutes to lock on (first shot after getting out of a car may be still register a previous location), but then it's fine and tracks fast. Only if you move major distances, it takes a bit to pick up again. Perhaps initial lock is slower than an iphone, that can also use mobile phone stations. Inside a car however, none keep track (iphone or hx20). Inside a city, I didn't check, GPS is not that important for me since you can find most spots with google streetview etc.

 

1200mm, yes I agree about  "good enough for the job", the point is it's like the MP race, who can make the longest zoom. In the end, a 600mm equivalent may have the better IQ after cropping, than a 1200mm equiv, depending on design.

Maybe the SX50 itself would give a better picture at 800mm equiv with cropping than at 1200mm.   So far no serious tests that compare this also to say a Canon 100-400 on crop.

 

The 100-400 dust pump was not meant to be a comment on the lens, but simply meant to illustrate how dust might enter in the HX20 or HX30 series.
#13
Took a few random shots indoors tonight... in full auto I don't think it is really any different from the Sony.

I did forget about one factor you don't see on the spec sheet - the feel of it. There's nothing to grip! On the HX9V there's a finger grip on the front the height of the body, and a pad to rest the thumb on the back. On the SX240 there's a little ridge on the front, and nothing on the back for the thumb to rest on, except the mode wheel or about a half width of space to its left. So single handed shooting with this may be trickier, but perhaps I just need to get used to it. Its just a bit too rounded in the corners so there's nothing to hold on to.
<a class="bbc_url" href="http://snowporing.deviantart.com/">dA</a> Canon 7D2, 7D, 5D2, 600D, 450D, 300D IR modified, 1D, EF-S 10-18, 15-85, EF 35/2, 85/1.8, 135/2, 70-300L, 100-400L, MP-E65, Zeiss 2/50, Sigma 150 macro, 120-300/2.8, Samyang 8mm fisheye, Olympus E-P1, Panasonic 20/1.7, Sony HX9V, Fuji X100.
#14
Quote:Took a few random shots indoors tonight... in full auto I don't think it is really any different from the Sony.


I did forget about one factor you don't see on the spec sheet - the feel of it. There's nothing to grip! On the HX9V there's a finger grip on the front the height of the body, and a pad to rest the thumb on the back. On the SX240 there's a little ridge on the front, and nothing on the back for the thumb to rest on, except the mode wheel or about a half width of space to its left. So single handed shooting with this may be trickier, but perhaps I just need to get used to it. Its just a bit too rounded in the corners so there's nothing to hold on to.
 

Hmm, good point about the grip, the sony is indeed quite ok. Another thing I noticed on the Hx20 is that at tele it's f5.8, while the canon is f6.8. sony has only a ND filter, does the canon have an aperture?
#15
Since I've been using both cameras side by side for a while now, I thought I'd throw in come comments on their relative performance.

To recap: I was switching from a Sony HX9V, which is a nice bundle but I feel the responsiveness is a bit annoyingly slow, and the noise reduction on it is too strong and wastes it potential. So I got the Canon SX240. While not a current model, it is newer than the HX9V. It has a longer zoom and via CHDK can provide additional features and DNG output.

Feel / holding: The HX9V wins here easily. It has a decent grip and a place to rest your right thumb. The SX240 is very rounded so there's nothing to grip, apart from a tiny bar on the front, and no space on the back for the thumb except the mode dial.

Zoom: both operate similarly, but the displayed info is different. The HX9V shows the zoom ratio relative to the wide end. I like this. The SX240 doesn't give a value but shows a bar, although to be fair I don't know if there is a custom option to do so somewhere. Instead, it does show you what the focus range is. This is handy, as the minimum focus distance increases significantly with focal length on both cameras.

Macro: On the HX9V, I worked out you get maximum magnification around 2x zoom, so I can easily set it about there and shoot away. I haven't worked out the sweet spot on the SX240, but my feel so far it is not capable of as much magnification.

Image quality: As mentioned before, the HX9V output is very smeared from the strong noise reduction you can't turn off. I would love if you could turn it down a bit in auto mode, so you may get a little nose but also retain more of the resolution potential. The SX240 isn't that different in jpeg mode, but might have a tiny advantage. I haven't yet looked for options to adjust this. Now, the extra zoom range does mean it has a clear advantage if used on the long end. On that note, it is hard to point accurately on max zoom. The built in IS is pretty strong and works ok for initial aiming, but you need to keep absolutely steady when pressing the shutter button, something I haven't mastered on a compact! So that is enough to throw the aim off. Not the same stability as using a SLR OVF.

The DNG output of the DX240 I've get to get to grips with. On the wide end, there is strong barrel distortion and the image doesn't even fill the sensor with black corners. On the long end this isn't a problem. You get the expected noise and even hot pixels, which are reasonably suppressed by modern raw converters. Write speeds for DNG take an eternity, but to be fair I'm not using very fast SD cards at the moment.

Connectivity and charging: The HX9V has a proprietary USB cable which is used to charge the camera, and can also update the GPS quickfix data and usual data transfer. The socket is exposed on the base of the camera and it is easy to connect to. The SX240 has a standard mini USB (not to be confused by micro USB as used on mobile devices) which is only used for data transfer. This is hidden under a flap to help keep dirt out. You can't charge the battery over USB, and have to take out the battery and put it in a dedicated charger. Big negative for travel use.

Semi-manual use: Neither camera is as easy as a DSLR to use in PASM modes. The HX9V only has P and M modes, and the wheel on it doesn't have a good feel since it doubles a button press so you have to delicately use it otherwise different things happen. The SX240 wheel is only a wheel, so you can apply a firm pressure. The HX9V only has two aperture setting steps, whereas the SX240 has a greater number of steps. Realistically, these cameras will be used 99% of the time in full auto or scene modes.

Overall impressions: even these compacts are no single solution for me. I like the feel and macro of the HX9V, but the SX240 does have a clear advantage on the long end of the zoom, if you can point it accurately. I find I keep the HX9V in my pocket when going out more. Its advantages still outweigh the disadvantages compared against the SX240.
<a class="bbc_url" href="http://snowporing.deviantart.com/">dA</a> Canon 7D2, 7D, 5D2, 600D, 450D, 300D IR modified, 1D, EF-S 10-18, 15-85, EF 35/2, 85/1.8, 135/2, 70-300L, 100-400L, MP-E65, Zeiss 2/50, Sigma 150 macro, 120-300/2.8, Samyang 8mm fisheye, Olympus E-P1, Panasonic 20/1.7, Sony HX9V, Fuji X100.
#16
You might consider a Pentax Q with an adapter and one of the several small 70~75mm options that fit on it, such as:

- Pentax DA 70mm f/2.4

- Pentax 110 70mm f/2.8

- Voigtlander 75mm Leica-M f/1.8

- something C-mount

 

These give 392 or 420mm equivalent focal length.  The body has in-body stabilization, full manual and real controls and DNG raw output.  It has the same sensor as the compact Sonys but Pentax tweaks the output to have less smeared noise reduction than Sony.  Of course, you'd have to add second lens to get the wide end, the only suitable candidate is the 5-15mm (27.5-83mm equiv.).

 

I just love this image from Imaging Resource of the Q on a key chain:

[Image: pentaxq_1a_800.jpg]

#17
I'm looking forward to get Samsung Galaxy S4 zoom as my next compact camera/phone.

http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_galaxy_s4_zoom-5447.php

Pentax Q7 also looks pretty good.

  


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