[Studor13]

[quote name='thw' timestamp='1335716923' post='17861']

Studor13: You obviously do not have a lot of experience with landscape photography.

[/quote]



Please, I ask only this. Spare me 30 minutes of your time and look at the clips below that I did (three years ago) in their order.



Maybe I am not as good a landscape photographer as you but I hope you will agree at the end of my presentation that I tell a decent story. (concentrate on the story and not just the photography)



https://vimeo.com/21291478

https://vimeo.com/22283954

https://vimeo.com/22282231

https://vimeo.com/22290370

https://vimeo.com/22285695



Oh, and turn up the volume for the sax solo in the first clip. It will break your heart.

[Guest]

[quote name='Studor13' timestamp='1335722425' post='17864']

Please, I ask only this. Spare me 30 minutes of your time and look at the clips below that I did (three years ago) in their order.[/quote]



Thanks for sharing the photos. They are very nice.



Live view focusing is NOT a must for landscape photographers. Otherwise, how did photographers survive in the pre-live-view era? (Having said that, I should point out Ansel Adams used a loupe to magnify the image in the optical viewfinder for critical focusing.) And there are only particular instances when focusing becomes very critical, such as the shot I used for illustration. But once we start to use live view to check focusing, it becomes an addiction 'cos it's really really convenient. <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



Let me reiterate: RAW shooters (and I believe all landscape photographers work with RAW) can easily work around the poor live-view implementation in D800. It's not the end of the world. <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

[Brightcolours]

[quote name='thw' timestamp='1335742330' post='17868']

Thanks for sharing the photos. They are very nice.



Live view focusing is NOT a must for landscape photographers. Otherwise, how did photographers survive in the pre-live-view era? (Having said that, I should point out Ansel Adams used a loupe to magnify the image in the optical viewfinder for critical focusing.) And there are only particular instances when focusing becomes very critical, such as the shot I used for illustration. But once we start to use live view to check focusing, it becomes an addiction 'cos it's really really convenient. <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



Let me reiterate: RAW shooters (and I believe all landscape photographers work with RAW) can easily work around the poor live-view implementation in D800. It's not the end of the world. <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />

[/quote]

Hmm.. Ansel Adams and "optical view finder"? What kind of camera do you think Ansel Adams used?

A hint:



(this type of large format camera is basically one big TS camera).



On mr. Merklinger... he just says to focus in the main subject to get critical sharpness in the most important part, instead of messing around with the nonsense of DOF calculators. Merklinger would for sure LOVE live view to get the main subject of the scene in critical focus, and let the rest of the scene be more or less sharp by selecting the appropriate aperture.



It is very clear that to serious landscape photographers, live view is an asset, just like it is to macro shooters who shoot from a tripod.



Of course, one could not use live view before it existed, so of course landscape photos were always made without when it was not available yet. And, of course, if a camera has badly implemented live view, it is less attractive to a photographer who values live view than a camera with well implemented live view.

[Studor13]

Shall we start from the begining again?



I am not against LV. I use it regularly.



Now, let's look at the non-sense from Fred:

"I had never experienced this before and wasted so much time playing around with the live view, that I missed the light."



Do you see? He missed the light!



Why? Trying to use LV in the dark to find his critical focus point is the personification of messing around. All he had to do was to turn the focus ring unitl the green light came on.



When you have a foreground, mid-ground and back-ground - all of which are of interest - there is no critical point that is going make a difference to the image. You can either focus on the general area of most interest or as I have said a number of times, just dial to infinity.



And BC, how on earth do you know that "Merklinger would for sure LOVE live view "?



Have you been reading Fred Miranda again?

[Brightcolours]

[quote name='Studor13' timestamp='1335787436' post='17879']

Shall we start from the begining again?



I am not against LV. I use it regularly.



Now, let's look at the non-sense from Fred:

"I had never experienced this before and wasted so much time playing around with the live view, that I missed the light."



Do you see? He missed the light!

[/quote]

And when using live view with the 5D mk III, did he waste time and miss the light too, with its live view?

[quote name='Studor13' timestamp='1335787436' post='17879']



Why? Trying to use LV in the dark to find his critical focus point is the personification of messing around. All he had to do was to turn the focus ring unitl the green light came on.

[/quote]

If only the focus system is always accurate. Especially with MF focus confirmation.

[quote name='Studor13' timestamp='1335787436' post='17879']



When you have a foreground, mid-ground and back-ground - all of which are of interest - there is no critical point that is going make a difference to the image. You can either focus on the general area of most interest or as I have said a number of times, just dial to infinity.



And BC, how on earth do you know that "Merklinger would for sure LOVE live view "?

[/quote]

It is in what I wrote. Merklinger believes in getting the focus right on the main subject. Live view CAN help with that. When it is implemented in a way that does not get in the way, obviously. If Merklinger uses large view cameras... he IS using live view anyway (looking on the ground glass plate, at the projected image). And if he then also inspects the projection with a loupe....

And most of the time there IS one main subject in an image. Even if it is just the horizon. If there is not, most probably you are wasting yoru time trying to make a photo anyway.

[quote name='Studor13' timestamp='1335787436' post='17879']

Have you been reading Fred Miranda again?

[/quote]

It is funny, to see you want to break down Fred Miranda. The guy does know a thing or two about what he is doing, and why.

[Studor13]

Just out of curiosity did you have a look at my links?



Please, have a look, especially the last one. Only then you will get an idea of how many hours I have put into landscape photography without LV.



The green dot works and it works better than LV will ever be. Try using LV after hiking to 5000 feet in the middle of winter in complete darkness when the wind is blowing at 100km per hour.



If FM is such a great photographer then how is that he missed the shot?



I'll tell you why. He forgot the basics. Get the shot in first and then mess around all you like.

[Brightcolours]

You only posted some vimeo links. Last time I checked, vimeo is some video site. If for whatever reason you want to share a photo link, by all means do so.



That you stubbornly refuse to accept that kinda in focus is not the same as really in focus, and that you CAN see the different between them, is not my problem.



And I am not trying to defend MY photography, I am not a landscape shooter. Not someone who uses tripods, not someone who tries to get everything sharp, not someone who uses tilt-shift lenses to try and get that perfect, not someone who uses live view to find the perfect focus position.



I am just understanding those who do all that, the reasons why, and the differences it can make.



The real landscape shooters use bigger formats... No substitute for size of film/sensor. I know there is no convincing you about how one can not really rely on AF or focus confirmation, especially in lower light. And that live view is a very worthwhile addition to cameras for landscape shooters, not just tripod/marco shooters.



Not interested in any vimeo links.

[Studor13]

Here is a typical landscape shooter's scenario:



When I don't have to deal with our kids I wake up early and check the light outside. (holiday here)



Today the light looked like it's going to come.



I make a guesstimate where there may be a shot.



I get there and set up.



Take and number of test shots. The focus point is the yellow building with some lights.







It's actaully darker than it looks.



Focus is locked with AF-On. Job's done. I no longer need to mess around with "critical focus"- whatever that is.



What are my problems?



I try with no filters, 1 stop grad ND, 3 stop grad ND, 3 stop reverse grad ND and some more. (but not with a CPL. I already know that this will cause a problem)



The light comes within a few moments.



And I get the shot! Yes, everything is tack sharp.







You are kidding yourself if you think serious landscape photographers have got the luxury of time to be dealing with a non-existing critical focus point using LV.



PS. Image is from JPEG. I have the RAW version but it's a lot more difficult to get it right than I thought. A rainy day project.

[Steinar1]

Nice pic Studor; Without wanting to get in the middle of a trans- alp battle, are you in Slovenia somewhere?

[Studor13]

Yes, Vieux, we are in the village of Studor which is 3km from beautiful Lake Bohinj.



We currently have a lovely French family as well as some Slovene guests staying with us. I managed to get away from helping the wife out in the garden to battle with BC and co.



Now I gotta go and cook dinner before she who must be obeyed comes back.