[popo]

Last weekend I got a 5D2. My resistance broke from a combination of receiving a bonus at work and the 5D2 hitting an all time low price. I'm intending on using it primarily to expand my skills outside my wildlife comfort zone, and make the most of the primes I've been building up.



However, when I do revert to wildlife, I think it would make a nicer "second camera" than the 600D I currently use. The thing I'm missing is a standard zoom. I got an EF 28-80 V USM gathering dust somewhere but think I want something a little nicer than that.



My 1st choice would be the 24-105L which is perfect except for the price and old styling where the zoom ring is rather small compared to more modern lenses. I don't think I'll be using it enough to spend that kind of money.



So looking for some ideas. Full frame standard zoom, should start at 24mm and not longer. Must have fast focus, preferably USM (or equivalent) and IS would be a plus but not essential. Any ideas? Oh, fast apertures are no advantage in my application so f/2.8 is NOT a requirement.



Looking around, there's an EF 24-85 USM cheap on the used markets, but I'm being realistic and not expecting much there. The older Sigma 24-70 not-HSM version might be an option... Neither Tamron nor Tokina seem to have anything starting at 24mm. Anything else I might have overlooked?



Worst case I just wont get anything and keep using the 600D + 15-85 in this role.

[Guest]

[quote name='popo' timestamp='1324406145' post='13956']

Last weekend I got a 5D2. My resistance broke from a combination of receiving a bonus at work and the 5D2 hitting an all time low price. I'm intending on using it primarily to expand my skills outside my wildlife comfort zone, and make the most of the primes I've been building up.



However, when I do revert to wildlife, I think it would make a nicer "second camera" than the 600D I currently use. The thing I'm missing is a standard zoom. I got an EF 28-80 V USM gathering dust somewhere but think I want something a little nicer than that.



My 1st choice would be the 24-105L which is perfect except for the price and old styling where the zoom ring is rather small compared to more modern lenses. I don't think I'll be using it enough to spend that kind of money.



So looking for some ideas. Full frame standard zoom, should start at 24mm and not longer. Must have fast focus, preferably USM (or equivalent) and IS would be a plus but not essential. Any ideas? Oh, fast apertures are no advantage in my application so f/2.8 is NOT a requirement.



Looking around, there's an EF 24-85 USM cheap on the used markets, but I'm being realistic and not expecting much there. The older Sigma 24-70 not-HSM version might be an option... Neither Tamron nor Tokina seem to have anything starting at 24mm. Anything else I might have overlooked?



Worst case I just wont get anything and keep using the 600D + 15-85 in this role.

[/quote]

In all honesty, it doesnt really occur to me why you want to pair the 5d with sub-par glass. Apart from the Canon 24-105 and 24-70 I dont see any good alternatives. The Tamron 28-75 is ok, but probably not acceptable to you since it doesnt start at 24mm. The new Sigma 24-70 HSM is optically not good. From the old Canons, I had the 28-105 USm 3.5-4.5 on film camera. That lens was only usable between f/8 and f/11 from 28 to about 70mm. Any aperture wider than f/8 or any focal length longer than 70mm was a low contrast nightmare. I hardly ever used it. The 28-135mm IS is reportedly much better, but doesnt offer 24mm.

If you dont want to get the canon 24-70 or 24-105 I recommend you stick with 600d and 15-85 as your walk around gear. As long as you keep the iso below 800, IQ will be much better with this combination than with a 5d and bad glass. Above all 600d + 15-85 is much more portable.

[frank]

As a Nikon user I always feel being frustrated when choosing a standard zoom lens for a FX camera. If you have a wide angle zoom like 16-35mm and a tele zoom like 70-200mm or 80-200mm, then the focal length range 24-70mm can be easily filled by a 50mm prime and a 35mm prime. If you really need a zoom in this range, then a 24-105mm f4 or 24-120mm f4 with IS or VR would be perfect. Because I don't like the Nikon 24-120mm f4, I choosed a 24-85mm f2.8-4. The 24-85mm is not perfect, but it seems I have no other choice. I just feel that the 24-70mm f2.8 is not only very expensive but also not necessary (my personal opinion; if somebody uses the 24-70mm FL extensively then it is a different story). This is just a general comment. While for your case, I agree with jenbenn that the 24-105mm f4 IS would be perfect.



Frank

[popo]

The main reason for me thinking about using the 5D2 to replace the 600D as 2nd camera is because the 600D buffer is practically non existent with raws. My wildlife walkabout setup is with two bodies, currently 7D+100-400, and 600D+15-85. It doesn't make sense to use the 5D2 with a long lens which firmly belongs on the 7D, hence looking at standard-ish lengths for the 5D2. 24mm was given as a requirement simple as I do use 15mm on the 15-85. I also use 85 actually, so ideally would prefer a 24-135 but it seems no one has made one yet. I guess I could relax it to 28-135 if I see one at the right price... I don't think it is worth its new asking price here anyway. Size and weight isn't important in this application. Maybe I should have got the 60D over the 600D but it is a bit late for that thought now.



I used to have a Tamron 28-75 - never liked it. Maybe I had a bad copy but it was never really sharp wide open even with perfect focus, so stopped down you might as well have got another lens anyway. And I didn't like the AF mechanism either.



By default, I'll stick to my existing arrangement, but will see if Canon refreshes the 24-105 any time soon (along with 5D3 perhaps?) and even if they kept it optically the same but updated the physical side, that might be enough to tempt me.

[Brightcolours]

The Sigma 24-70mm f2.8 HSM is optically a fine lens, but does not have the nicest bokeh of the breed. It is better optically than the 24-105mm f4, and better than the 24-70 which preceded it. In the past the Sigma 24-60mm f2.8 got good reviews. Should be very affordable, but should be tried before bought to avoid AF inaccuracies in the copy you acquire. The Sigma 28-70mm f2.8 does not go wide enough for you.



The Canon 24mm-105mm f4 will not be updated anytime soon, it is a relatively new lens. The 24-70mm f2.8 is up for an update, though.. The only relatively new lens that may be updated soon is the 70-200mm f4 L IS USM.



So it may be that the Sigma 24-70mm f2.8 HSM will do as standard zoom for you, it depends on your usage, and how much importance you lay in its extreme corner performance. It is not a cheap lens, though.



I think it may be worthwhile to try your luck with a Sigma 24-60mm EX DG, if you can find one for a low price. Won't have HSM though, and no IS of course, which the 24-105mm f4 does offer. I know that I would be checking it out, for standard zoom on a budget,



http://www.flickr.com/photos/51352098@N00/3134209211

[popo]

I guess I could have added that bokeh isn't really important in this application, in part I did say I don't need or want f/2.8. 24-60 is far too short to be considered.



So it sounds like there isn't really anything other than the 24-105L but if I wanted to spend that much, I think a 2nd 7D would serve me better. I consider the 7D to be the far better general use camera, but the 5D2 does have its little niche (big aperture prime fun) which is why I got it. Just wondering what else I can put it to work on while I have it since most things I have are biased towards EF-S compatible bodies.

[Brightcolours]

[quote name='popo' timestamp='1324471330' post='13971']

I guess I could have added that bokeh isn't really important in this application, in part I did say I don't need or want f/2.8. 24-60 is far too short to be considered.



So it sounds like there isn't really anything other than the 24-105L but if I wanted to spend that much, I think a 2nd 7D would serve me better. I consider the 7D to be the far better general use camera, but the 5D2 does have its little niche (big aperture prime fun) which is why I got it. Just wondering what else I can put it to work on while I have it since most things I have are biased towards EF-S compatible bodies.

[/quote]

Personal, I guess. I would have no problem with a 24-60mm, just combine it with a longer lens for longer stuff. Does not even have to cost much (Canon 85mm f1.8 USM, one of the 90-105mm macros, and so on).

[Rover]

[quote name='popo' timestamp='1324455544' post='13964']

I also use 85 actually, so ideally would prefer a 24-135 but it seems no one has made one yet.

[/quote]

Sigma & Tamron did have a 24-135 each but I'm not sure you'd want to touch either with a ten foot pole, especially on FF...

Tamron review at Photozone: http://www.opticallimits.com/canon-eos/2...rt--review

The Sigma is f/2.8-4.5 but rather hard to find, and I'm really not sure it's usable anywhere near wide open. I only saw it in the wild once, but haven't tried as it was in Nikon mount.

Some user reviews: http://www.dyxum.com/reviews/lenses/Sigm...ew130.html

I used to have a Tamron 28-75 - never liked it. Maybe I had a bad copy but it was never really sharp wide open even with perfect focus, so stopped down you might as well have got another lens anyway.

You may've been asking too much from it... a $400 f/2.8 lens isn't very likely to be critically sharp wide open. Not even a $1000 lens is guaranteed to be sharp wide open (not the FF ones, anyways).

[wim]

[quote name='popo' timestamp='1324471330' post='13971']

I guess I could have added that bokeh isn't really important in this application, in part I did say I don't need or want f/2.8. 24-60 is far too short to be considered.



So it sounds like there isn't really anything other than the 24-105L but if I wanted to spend that much, I think a 2nd 7D would serve me better. I consider the 7D to be the far better general use camera, but the 5D2 does have its little niche (big aperture prime fun) which is why I got it. Just wondering what else I can put it to work on while I have it since most things I have are biased towards EF-S compatible bodies.

[/quote]

In that case I'd suggest a 28-135 if you really want a zoom. The 5D II and the 5D are very forgiving cameras when it comes to lenses, with their relatively large sensel sizes.



What you could consider as well, BTW, is getting a 24 F/2.8 or using your TS-E 24 on this camera, and any other of the primes you have. You may well be pleasantly surprised by the results. Maybe upgrade the 50 F/1.8 to a 50 F/1.4, either Sigma or Canon, or maybe even a ZE 50 F/2 (much more expensive however).



Or if you want to go crazy, get a TS-E 17L. That would certainly justify the existence of the 5D II just by itself, and vice versa <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />. Very expensive lens however <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />.



Kind regards, Wim

[popo]

[quote name='Brightcolours' timestamp='1324475159' post='13973']

Personal, I guess. I would have no problem with a 24-60mm, just combine it with a longer lens for longer stuff. Does not even have to cost much (Canon 85mm f1.8 USM, one of the 90-105mm macros, and so on).[/quote]

I'm not saying I can't or wouldn't use one, but for the specific application I mentioned in the 1st post, it isn't well suited. Basically, I'm looking for a full frame equivalent to the 15-85 which doesn't seem to exist. I think I've come to the conclusion the next best thing is the 28-135 and I might grab one if I see one at a low enough price used.



[quote name='Rover' timestamp='1324477889' post='13974']

You may've been asking too much from it... a $400 f/2.8 lens isn't very likely to be critically sharp wide open. Not even a $1000 lens is guaranteed to be sharp wide open (not the FF ones, anyways).[/quote]

The reviews were generally positive, so I was expecting a bit more. I'm not an obsessive pixel peeper and I think my "good enough" threshold is pretty low, but the Tamron failed to meet that.



[quote name='wim' timestamp='1324482624' post='13977']

What you could consider as well, BTW, is getting a 24 F/2.8 or using your TS-E 24 on this camera, and any other of the primes you have. You may well be pleasantly surprised by the results. Maybe upgrade the 50 F/1.8 to a 50 F/1.4, either Sigma or Canon, or maybe even a ZE 50 F/2 (much more expensive however).



Or if you want to go crazy, get a TS-E 17L. That would certainly justify the existence of the 5D II just by itself, and vice versa <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />. Very expensive lens however <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />.[/quote]

Again, in this thread I was looking for a lens for a specific application. I have a bunch of primes already which is in part why I wanted the 5D2, so I can try to unleash their potential. But for my "comfort zone" use, all I want is a reasonable standard zoom.



It may be done to death but I do want to do the "fake miniatures" with the TS-E24. For walkaround, I haven't decided yet if the 35/2 or a 50mm will better suit me as that is an alien world to me. I have been thinking of replacing the f/1.8 with the f/1.4 for those times when I need AF, as I do have the Zeiss 2/50 already.



The TS-E17... well, thankfully that doesn't fit into my (known) needs at all so it isn't on the radar. The only significant lens on my short term wish list (say within 6 months) is the fisheye zoom.