09-21-2011, 07:15 PM
[quote name='mst' timestamp='1316610412' post='11710']
No, no, I'm not enthusiastic. It's just that I expected a pimped up Coolpix ... and judging from all Coolpix cameras I know, even the recent high-end ones, that would have meant a lower grade system than was announced today.
[/quote]
OK, if taken something like the top, "ultimate" Coolpix, I´m fine. Still, I can´t see the right target group for this... It is way too expensive for enthusiast´s Coolpix (which is what I think it will be mostly viewed as anyway).
[quote name='mst' timestamp='1316610412' post='11710']
Over NEX5 and Pen-3: the viewfinder. Over GH-1 (or GH-2): size and price. And supossedly better AF, especially when tracking.
[/quote]
Come on, you can have equally good VF with EP3 and much better with NEX 5n. Yes, it adds up a cost little bit but still it is not far from V1 price (and thus the price difference is not an issue for a potential buyer). And esp. the external vievfinder for NEX5n is said to be fabulous.
[quote name='mst' timestamp='1316610412' post='11710']
Not to me ... my mFT and compact cameras were/are locked in 3:2 mode.
[/quote]
OK, for you... But it doesn´t matter to me at all <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
' />
[quote name='mst' timestamp='1316610412' post='11710']
The system is new and we should wait for a few more lenses to arrive to judge its competitiveness. And of course actual image results. Nikon has already published a few full size images, which honestly didn't impress me. However, just like with the Sony NEX7, I hope that RAW converters deliver a lot more than that.
[/quote]
Yes, of course u r right here. Lets wait for the final reviews and outputs.
[quote name='mst' timestamp='1316610412' post='11710']
From a user's/buyer's perspective it's of course just another new system and yes, Nikon will have a hard time to convince potential buyers. The systems does have advantages, though. Just like it has drawbacks. Like any other system, too <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />
[/quote]
I still cannot see any serious advantages over the existing m4/3 or APS-C mirorless solutions.
[quote name='mst' timestamp='1316610412' post='11710']
From Nikon's point of view, they couldn't risk to leave that market segment completely to others. They simply had no choice but to offer something.
[/quote]
May be the case. But still I´m convinced this Nikon ms will be a flop.
[quote name='mst' timestamp='1316610412' post='11710']
I have used mFT for a while and the level of DOF control I got with the 20/1.7 and Pana/Leica 25/1.4 was sufficient for me (keeping in mind that it wasn't my primary system ... and I guess this will also be the case for many Nikon1 buyers, too). The step from factor 2 to 2.7 is not really that huge. Sure, it will need even faster lenses to reach the same level of DOF control as mFT, but that's not impossible. And then there are still more factors that influence DOF and subject separation than just the lens. If possible, you could also increase the subject to background distance. Or decrease camera to subject distance. The potential for DOF control is definitely still a lot higher than with Pentax Q.
[/quote]
I disagree. The level of DOF control 2.7 crop sensor gives you is definitely insufficient from my point of view. OK, if you shoot the 100mm lens at f5.6 from 5 metres, you get it there... but the perspective is all wrong (brutally flat, as you certainly know). Sure, DOF is affected by more aspects: the lens fastness, distance from the object, focal lengths and the crop factor... but - the 2.7 crop factor is definitely too much for my taste, I doubt we will get something like 30mm/f0,75 which could be satisfactory in this aspect (equal to 80mm/f2 lens) and who wants to shoot with 300mm lens equivalent to get shallow DOF effect and noticable background blur...
[quote name='mst' timestamp='1316610412' post='11710']
I'm not saying the Nikon1 is a flawless system. It certainly isn't. I already said that like many others I would have preferred a lager sensor for example. But let's be honest: for the majority of the images we shoot every day, a Nikon1 would be sufficient, wouldn't it?
[/quote]
Yes, for the ordinary snapshots it is fine of course. Still, way too expensive Im saying again... If the price with the basic kit lens would be around Canon G12 or so, yes, it would sell in high volumes. Priced as it is, photographers will look elsewhere in most cases... Time will tell, lets see who will be right ;-)
No, no, I'm not enthusiastic. It's just that I expected a pimped up Coolpix ... and judging from all Coolpix cameras I know, even the recent high-end ones, that would have meant a lower grade system than was announced today.
[/quote]
OK, if taken something like the top, "ultimate" Coolpix, I´m fine. Still, I can´t see the right target group for this... It is way too expensive for enthusiast´s Coolpix (which is what I think it will be mostly viewed as anyway).
[quote name='mst' timestamp='1316610412' post='11710']
Over NEX5 and Pen-3: the viewfinder. Over GH-1 (or GH-2): size and price. And supossedly better AF, especially when tracking.
[/quote]
Come on, you can have equally good VF with EP3 and much better with NEX 5n. Yes, it adds up a cost little bit but still it is not far from V1 price (and thus the price difference is not an issue for a potential buyer). And esp. the external vievfinder for NEX5n is said to be fabulous.
[quote name='mst' timestamp='1316610412' post='11710']
Not to me ... my mFT and compact cameras were/are locked in 3:2 mode.
[/quote]
OK, for you... But it doesn´t matter to me at all <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
' />[quote name='mst' timestamp='1316610412' post='11710']
The system is new and we should wait for a few more lenses to arrive to judge its competitiveness. And of course actual image results. Nikon has already published a few full size images, which honestly didn't impress me. However, just like with the Sony NEX7, I hope that RAW converters deliver a lot more than that.
[/quote]
Yes, of course u r right here. Lets wait for the final reviews and outputs.
[quote name='mst' timestamp='1316610412' post='11710']
From a user's/buyer's perspective it's of course just another new system and yes, Nikon will have a hard time to convince potential buyers. The systems does have advantages, though. Just like it has drawbacks. Like any other system, too <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='
' />[/quote]
I still cannot see any serious advantages over the existing m4/3 or APS-C mirorless solutions.
[quote name='mst' timestamp='1316610412' post='11710']
From Nikon's point of view, they couldn't risk to leave that market segment completely to others. They simply had no choice but to offer something.
[/quote]
May be the case. But still I´m convinced this Nikon ms will be a flop.
[quote name='mst' timestamp='1316610412' post='11710']
I have used mFT for a while and the level of DOF control I got with the 20/1.7 and Pana/Leica 25/1.4 was sufficient for me (keeping in mind that it wasn't my primary system ... and I guess this will also be the case for many Nikon1 buyers, too). The step from factor 2 to 2.7 is not really that huge. Sure, it will need even faster lenses to reach the same level of DOF control as mFT, but that's not impossible. And then there are still more factors that influence DOF and subject separation than just the lens. If possible, you could also increase the subject to background distance. Or decrease camera to subject distance. The potential for DOF control is definitely still a lot higher than with Pentax Q.
[/quote]
I disagree. The level of DOF control 2.7 crop sensor gives you is definitely insufficient from my point of view. OK, if you shoot the 100mm lens at f5.6 from 5 metres, you get it there... but the perspective is all wrong (brutally flat, as you certainly know). Sure, DOF is affected by more aspects: the lens fastness, distance from the object, focal lengths and the crop factor... but - the 2.7 crop factor is definitely too much for my taste, I doubt we will get something like 30mm/f0,75 which could be satisfactory in this aspect (equal to 80mm/f2 lens) and who wants to shoot with 300mm lens equivalent to get shallow DOF effect and noticable background blur...
[quote name='mst' timestamp='1316610412' post='11710']
I'm not saying the Nikon1 is a flawless system. It certainly isn't. I already said that like many others I would have preferred a lager sensor for example. But let's be honest: for the majority of the images we shoot every day, a Nikon1 would be sufficient, wouldn't it?
[/quote]
Yes, for the ordinary snapshots it is fine of course. Still, way too expensive Im saying again... If the price with the basic kit lens would be around Canon G12 or so, yes, it would sell in high volumes. Priced as it is, photographers will look elsewhere in most cases... Time will tell, lets see who will be right ;-)