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D700 successor
#11
[quote name='Lomskij' timestamp='1297242040' post='5988']

Of course - like canibalising 7D sales with 60D, etc. Unfortunatelly Canon is no better here <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Big Grin' /> [/quote]



Not at all. The fps and AF sensor are very different between the 60D and 7D, so they cater to different crowds. Their handling is also different with the 7D offering the traditional Canon wheel and joystick that many people hanker after. In fact, if you examine the Japanese BCN charts, you'll see both cameras are doing pretty well in the Japanese market (the 60D beats out the D7000 in sales while the 7D trashes the D300s).



OTOH, the D700, with its pro built, weather sealing, fast fps, 51 point AF sensor etc etc, is so close in spec to the D3 that once the D700 was announced, I predicted Nikon would live to regret their decision in releasing the D700 so soon after the D3. My prediction turned out to be spot on. (I suspect they were desperately trying to stem the loss of their market shares to Canon at that point in time.) That's why you now have the D3s (to one-up the D3 sensor compared to the D700) and not the 24 MP D800. Nikon should have learned their lesson by now and the 24 MP D800 (probably with reduced fps) would only be released if their 40 MP D4X is ready. Just watch.
#12
[quote name='thw' timestamp='1297251020' post='5994']

Not at all. The fps and AF sensor are very different between the 60D and 7D, so they cater to different crowds. Their handling is also different with the 7D offering the traditional Canon wheel and joystick that many people hanker after. In fact, if you examine the Japanese BCN charts, you'll see both cameras are doing pretty well in the Japanese market (the 60D beats out the D7000 in sales while the 7D trashes the D300s).



OTOH, the D700, with its pro built, weather sealing, fast fps, 51 point AF sensor etc etc, is so close in spec to the D3 that once the D700 was announced, I predicted Nikon would live to regret their decision in releasing the D700 so soon after the D3. My prediction turned out to be spot on. (I suspect they were desperately trying to stem the loss of their market shares to Canon at that point in time.) That's why you now have the D3s (to one-up the D3 sensor compared to the D700) and not the 24 MP D800. Nikon should have learned their lesson by now and the 24 MP D800 (probably with reduced fps) would only be released if their 40 MP D4X is ready. Just watch.

[/quote]

The 24mp D3x is already no speed demon, fps wise. Upto 5 FPS according to Nikon. It of course never was designed to be fast with that resolution, but I don't think they would release a D800 (or D900?) with even slower FPS. Also, the D3x sensor is not very different in performance as that of the 1Ds mk III, and we know how much Nikon values low high ISO noise, with or without filtering it. So I don't think the D3x sensor will filter down like that.



Not sure what Nikon is cooking up, resolution wise, for the D3x follow up and the D3 and D700 follow up. But I think it might be two new sensors.
#13
Well, in the meantime, my reseller has said "not before september", so I have ordered the D700, which anyhow will be a great body and, posssibly a great back up body. It gives me time to let Nikon debug the successor and for me to get used to the FX. My guess is a 17MP sensor for the successor, no need to go to 23, which will remain the domain of the D4 and D4X. I do think it will get video with all the bells and whistles and a second CF slot, as well as all the improvements already present in the D300s. Kindly VL
#14
[quote name='Lomskij' timestamp='1297242040' post='5988']

Of course - like canibalising 7D sales with 60D, etc. Unfortunatelly Canon is no better here <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Big Grin' />

[/quote]

Yes, that's true... but the 7D's cannibalising D300s sales with its lower noise, higher res and video... so it's ok <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Big Grin' />





[quote name='Lomskij' timestamp='1297242040' post='5988']

Sure, if we start measuring the technology by mp count alone, then 16mp 1D IV was already outdated at the day of the release (because of 18mp 7D) <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />

[/quote]

Well I meant full-frame technology... otherwise there are P&S cameras with 14+ MPs too <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Smile' />





But if we're talking about pixel and speed tech:



1D IV: 10fps @ 16MP = 160MB/s

7D: 8fps @ 18MP = 144MB/s

D3s: 9fps @ 12MP = 108MB/s

D300s: 7fps @ 12MP = 84MB/s



<img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Wink' />
#15
[quote name='genotypewriter' timestamp='1297301776' post='6014']

Yes, that's true... but the 7D's cannibalising D300s sales with its lower noise, higher res and video... so it's ok <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Big Grin' />



[/quote]



No need for the 7D there... D7000's already doing it <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Wink' />... I don't think someone who has the Nikon D300s would sell it and switch to 7D, when the D7000 is already in the market with it's better low light performance (decent DR & decent color accuracy @ higher ISOs with that much resolution in APS-C).



When it comes to stealing customers across brands, I think 5D MK-II is the killer here (D700 --> MK-II). Here in my country, it's not unusual hearing from serious amateurs why they switched from D700 to 5D MKII. At almost same price, they get higher resolution with almost the same low light performance (+ in the second hand market, Canon is the leader here). But if the new D700 would be 18-20mp camera with exceptional low light performance (+ other improvements I mentioned below), I don't think that MK-II (or even MK-III) would be able to steal customers anymore.



Serkan
#16
[quote name='genotypewriter' timestamp='1297301776' post='6014']

Yes, that's true... but the 7D's cannibalising D300s sales with its lower noise, higher res and video... so it's ok <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Big Grin' />[/quote]

Typical sine curve - a couple of years ago D90 and D300 were cannibalising 50D's sales, D3 - 1D III's, or D3x - 1Ds III's (well, this one still is). Now Canon has an upper hand with 7D (had actually, before the D7000), etc.



[quote name='genotypewriter' timestamp='1297301776' post='6014']Well I meant full-frame technology... otherwise there are P&S cameras with 14+ MPs too <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Smile' /> [/quote]

Excuses, excuses... <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/rolleyes.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Rolleyes' />



[quote name='genotypewriter' timestamp='1297301776' post='6014']But if we're talking about pixel and speed tech:



1D IV: 10fps @ 16MP = 160MB/s

7D: 8fps @ 18MP = 144MB/s

D3s: 9fps @ 12MP = 108MB/s

D300s: 7fps @ 12MP = 84MB/s



<img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Wink' />

[/quote]

1Ds III: 5fps @ 21MP = 105MB/s

D3x: 5fps @ 24MP = 120MB/s

Casio Exilim EX-F1: 60fps @ 6MP = 360MB/s <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' />



Yeah...



I mean I still can't see where your belief that Canon is superior to other SLR manufacturers stems from. <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />
#17
[quote name='Lomskij' timestamp='1297330366' post='6023']

...

1Ds III: 5fps @ 21MP = 105MB/s

D3x: 5fps @ 24MP = 120MB/s

Casio Exilim EX-F1: 60fps @ 6MP = 360MB/s <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/blink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':blink:' />



Yeah...



I mean I still can't see where your belief that Canon is superior to other SLR manufacturers stems from. <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':lol:' />

[/quote]



LOL... Honestly, I really don't understant how come "fps" count in terms of comparisons. Moreover, why 5fps is not enough for sports/action photography? I mean 2fps compared to 6fps is meaningful, but 6fps to 10fps? I really don't see the point here... Maybe I need to be enlightened...
#18
[quote name='genotypewriter' timestamp='1297301776' post='6014']

Yes, that's true... but the 7D's cannibalising D300s sales with its lower noise, higher res and video... so it's ok <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Big Grin' />







Well I meant full-frame technology... otherwise there are P&S cameras with 14+ MPs too <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Smile' />





But if we're talking about pixel and speed tech:



1D IV: 10fps @ 16MP = 160MB/s

7D: 8fps @ 18MP = 144MB/s

D3s: 9fps @ 12MP = 108MB/s

D300s: 7fps @ 12MP = 84MB/s



<img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Wink' />

[/quote]
#19
[quote name='genotypewriter' timestamp='1297301776' post='6014']

Yes, that's true... but the 7D's cannibalising D300s sales with its lower noise, higher res and video... so it's ok <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Big Grin' />







Well I meant full-frame technology... otherwise there are P&S cameras with 14+ MPs too <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Smile' />





But if we're talking about pixel and speed tech:



1D IV: 10fps @ 16MP = 160MB/s

7D: 8fps @ 18MP = 144MB/s

D3s: 9fps @ 12MP = 108MB/s

D300s: 7fps @ 12MP = 84MB/s



I guess after the above data was assessed the side lines of major sports event turned from white lens dominated to black lens dominated... still mostly black. BTW when D3s is used in crop format (as 1D IV is crop camera) it does 11 fps.



<img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='Wink' />

[/quote]
#20
Take into account that the D3 and D300 do not have a very consistent framerate (when tracking).



And the D3 at APS-C format... does not AF at all, when you shoot continuously. So that 11fps figure is a bit nonsensical..



Just use the camera you like best.
  
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