[wim]

[quote name='Pinhole' timestamp='1280312841' post='1359']

Just a question Markus:



Is that really all sensor dirt? I've never seen a hair look so defined if its lying on a sensor, nor dust spots. On my camera, it just produce an undefined dark 'blob' unless it's on the lens somewhere.

[/quote]

Well, hairs are also considered to be dust in this regard <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />. And a dust shaking mechanism does seem to get rid of those very effectively <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />.



If it is on the lens somewhere, it should actually not show up at all, BTW, unless you use a fisheye or UWA lens for macro <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />.



Kind regards, Wim

[Guest]

[quote name='Pinhole' timestamp='1280249785' post='1341']

A perennial subject!



I just read in another thread a suggestion to change lenses in a plastic bag. This is certainly sound and sensible advice, but I'm wondering what the real consequences are if you don't.



I've used a couple of DSLRs and never once cleaned the sensor except for the occasional blast with a rubber bellows. On my current 5D, I'm changing (most prime) lenses all the time, in all types of situations, and I haven't noticed any image degradation over the last year. Being more of a hands-on photographer, I don't have the time or patience to treat a camera like a museum exhibit - I just want to use the darned thing! <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



So the questions are: Does dust really inhibit image quality, or is it just visible to pixel-peepers? What are the long-term effects of dust, and will these problems realistically occur within the useful life of the camera?

[/quote]



Dust will eventually show up, but between anti-dust systems and some gentle blows, you can keep it to non-problematic levels for quite a while. It has taken me 5 years to get a dust spot I can't blow away even without anti-dust.



In low to moderately dusty areas, it's a good idea to turn the camera off when changing lenses, as that reduces the static electricity of the sensor, plus that's when anti-dust systems normally kick in. That's really the only time I turn off my camera[1]. I would only use plastic bags in very dusty places, like in a desert, near salt water spray, or in dirty industrial areas.



-Lars



[1] I've had my camera turned on for months at a time, it apparently doesn't draw any power when in sleep mode. Curiously, I had my first case of it being out of power after just hanging around - but it was turned off when that happened!

[joachim]

[quote name='mst' timestamp='1280311104' post='1358']

Absolutely. The 5D Mark II has sensor cleaning built in.



Cameras that do not (like the D3x) will collect dust spots easily and, as already mentioned, these can be visible in the image, especially when stopped down and with wide angles. Honestly: not having sensor cleaning in the camera is a major pain with both the D3x as well as the M9.



To give you an impression, this is what I got out of the D3x after a few weeks without cleaning:







And yes, it looks even worse with a pinhole cap, even after excessive cleaning <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/wink.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



When in use, I clean both camera usually once a week.



-- Markus

[/quote]



Hi Markus,



Thanks, you just reminded me, that going Olympus was the right choice for me. I haven't cleaned my E-300 once in 4.5 years and my E-P1 in 10 month. Ok, I rarely shoot beyond f/8. I would hate to have to do it weekly <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' />



Though I appreciate others think it is not a big deal.

[Guest]

[quote name='Pinhole' timestamp='1280270038' post='1353']

Having said that, I recently used a 'Subjektiv' pinhole adapter (review coming sometime!!) and man, there were spots all over the place! It's about a f124 or something, so this is probably to be expected.

[/quote]



Given the fact that you've already observed the effects of dust on your sensor yourself, I wonder what made you post your question in the first place?

[mst]

[quote name='BG_Home' timestamp='1280470971' post='1408']

Given the fact that you've already observed the effects of dust on your sensor yourself, I wonder what made you post your question in the first place?

[/quote]



Well, pinhole and normal lenses may behave very different in this regard. What's visible using a pinhole may have no effect at all with a normal lens, even stopped down.



-- Markus

[mst]

[quote name='joachim' timestamp='1280442852' post='1404']

I would hate to have to do it weekly

[/quote]



So do I, but there's no way around it, I'm afraid. It's especially frustrating if you owned self-cleaning cameras before.



-- Markus

[Guest]

[quote name='BG_Home' timestamp='1280470971' post='1408']

Given the fact that you've already observed the effects of dust on your sensor yourself, I wonder what made you post your question in the first place?

[/quote]





Yes, as Markus said, it's a different issue with pinhole attachments. I don't know if pinhole attachments are less problematic with film, but certainly in the digital field it's considered normal to have some dust showing up when using extremely small apertures.



Using normal lenses I hadn't noticed this dust, so as far as I'm concerned it's not a problem.



My first post was not to ask if I have dust on my sensor (because I can assure you I do <img src='http://forum.photozone.de/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt='' /> ), but whether this dust - which can't be seen under normal circumstances - has a noticeable impact on image quality.

[Brightcolours]

[quote name='Pinhole' timestamp='1280312841' post='1359']

Just a question Markus:



Is that really all sensor dirt? I've never seen a hair look so defined if its lying on a sensor, nor dust spots. On my camera, it just produce an undefined dark 'blob' unless it's on the lens somewhere.

[/quote]

Different cameras have different distances between the sensor and the glass over it. Apparently the distance between the surface of the glass and the sensor must be VERY small with the D3x.