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Canon EOS M5 announced
#61
Ok, my bad on that 1 point: the A7r has an unusually violent shutter, which causes its shutter shock issue with tripod use, but it has no IBIS. Its follow up does need electronic 1st curtain because of the IBIS. With Nikon the issue is certain lens-specific.

 

It all does not relate to the EOS M series, they don't have IBIS, no lenses have been found to be shutter shock prone, and they don't have the "violent" shutter from the A7R.

#62
Yes, you started the nonsense about shutter and IBIS. Not the rest of us.

It has nothing to do with the M5 - the question about the M5 is whether it suffers from the same amount of shutter shock as the M3.

#63
The M3 doesn't suffer from "shutter shock". That was the "nonsense" you started.

There have been zero reports on it.

#64
  Actually the Nikon VR issue occurs at shutter speeds of around 1/160th sec. on the AF-S 70-300mm, both on the D7100 and the D750, the D750 has a clacky/slappy shutter sound that's quite loud which in my view produces very little vibration, obviously the D7100 has less. 

 The Tamron 150-600mm suffers from softness at higher shutter speeds at the long end, but is sharper at slower shutter speeds. It seems strange that the VC can seriously reduce sharpness even at 1/2,000 sec.

 IMHO it's not shutter vibration that is causing it, but the operating frequency of the VR/VC system itself, which is why Nikon have been able to do little about it.

 Pentax K3 has a super quiet smooth shutter that's fairly vibration free, however the SR has a spool up time of 0.6-8 sec. this produces more problems with sharpness than shutter shock ever will.

 

 Was the M5 a missed video opportunity? Yes certainly!  I can guarantee Jordan, "that video guy" from The Camera Store will complain with rolling eyes about no 4K and no HP socket when reviewing the video section of the M5.

 

  But no doubt that it will sell in huge numbers, what Canon lacks in technicalities, it more than makes up for in marketing!

Dave's clichés
#65
Quote:Actually the Nikon VR issue occurs at shutter speeds of around 1/160th sec. on the AF-S 70-300mm, both on the D7100 and the D750, the D750 has a clacky/slappy shutter sound that's quite loud which in my view produces very little vibration, obviously the D7100 has less.

 The Tamron 150-600mm suffers from softness at higher shutter speeds at the long end, but is sharper at slower shutter speeds. It seems strange that the VC can seriously reduce sharpness even at 1/2,000 sec.

Don't forget their issues with the 300/4 PF E, still not solved - but maybe those lens has a different approach and they also communicate that: It makes no sense using VR on a tripod, but it makes a lot sense even at the cost of little motion blur to get some pictures without tripod you simply would not get without VR. Obviously not the best or flawless tech, but a very good help in aspects of "better than nothing".  Wink 

 

Quote:But no doubt that M5 will sell in huge numbers, what Canon lacks in technicalities, it more than makes up for in marketing!

When the 5D II was introduced, I heard from a Canon user "that's the camera the 5D should have been" before she got a D800 and sold the 5D - but kept her 7D.  Rolleyes Now a user commented on DPReview pretty similar the same thing about the M5 and in his eyes Canon's lack of innovations. 

 

Opinion: The EOS M5 is Canon's best ever mirrorless camera, and a big disappointment 

 

It already got 625 comments, so maybe everything was already said.

 

However, comparing D800 against D810 I could say exactly the same "is the camera that it's predecessor should have been". Working in a machine manufactury, I see a lot of things like this and it's contradictory: When a new camera or lens comes out, no matter how good it is , a lot of people complain or find it too expensive - the last I read in this aspect was Toni-A regarding a not even announced 85/1.4 Art. We expect outstanding performance, but are not willing to pay for it. That's fine, but not a reason to complain.

#66
Quote:The M3 doesn't suffer from "shutter shock". That was the "nonsense" you started.

There have been zero reports on it.
 

"Zero reports" appears to be incorrect.

 

https://www.google.ch/webhp?sourceid=chr...k+canon+M3

 

Wether it has it or not, but to post incorrect statements is not exactly helping in this situation, You appear to be hardcore fanboy.

#67
Quote:"Zero reports" appears to be incorrect.

 

https://www.google.ch/webhp?sourceid=chr...k+canon+M3

 

Wether it has it or not, but to post incorrect statements is not exactly helping in this situation, You appear to be hardcore fanboy.
You just typed in shutter shock and M3 and got a whole bunch of nonsense results back? What do you appears as? Just  flamer? Ok...
#68
If you want to be treated as a dumb stubborn fanboy, you're just on the right track  ^_^ To claim "there were zero reports about shutter shock" in the whole internet is very close to blindness. "there's zero reports of what I will believe" will come much closer to reality.

 

But I don't understand - some persons say, there's always first curtain shutter electronically in M3, and therefore no choice of shutter settings - what is all your blurb about IBIS then? and why should M3/M5 not suffer of rolling shutter, more noise and sensitivity against light sources with a certain frequency? Always the disadvantages of both and no way to change that doesn't appear like a wellthought system to me. Then, what can you expect from a simple flamer who does Google search and other searches you were too lazy to do.  :lol:

#69
So where are those reports of shutter shock in relation to the M3, JoJu? And what would cause that shutter shock? The camera has no IBIS, the camera has an electronic 1st curtain, and no EF-M/EF-S/EF lenses are reported to be sensitive to shutter shock.
 
In case you did not understand (I am sure you did not understand): In stills photography with the current CMOS sensors, full electronic shutters result in rolling shutter effects in stills images. That is why CMOS sensor cameras use mechanical shutters. 
Implementing full electronic shutters with these sensors then has a downside, which I pointed out. It is not just bliss, and mechanical shutters do have a real purpose still. Also, the implementation of a full electronic shutter raises the noise floor and lowers the DR.
The rolling shutter is a result of a electronic 2nd curtain. The M3 has a mechanical 2nd curtain. So, no rolling shutter from the CMOS. Same with the M and M2, by the way.
You can see it in action here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSb-bkpJipA
 
Full electronic shutters get implemented anyway, for two reasons that I know of: to prevent blur caused by the energy of the shutter, especially with IBIS cameras. And to implement silent shooting.
 
There are sensors which do read out al once, so without rolling shutter. But making those apparently is not cheap yet, hence they are only found in expensive video equipment at the moment.
#70
About shutter shock and IBIS:

This is like - We have a plan to cross the Himalayas and you state the biggest obstacle is the small hill just beyond town. 

 

We don't know the shutter of the M5 yet so we'll have to see.
  
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