08-14-2016, 04:27 AM
I've had plenty of experience with mirrorless cameras. Every digital camera I've owned before my first DSLR was, of course mirrorless. When I bought my Rebel XTi, I found all the ways it was superior to the cameras I used to have. A battery life that was ten times longer. Very small lag time between pressing shutter release, burst shooting, higher ISO, and all of the rest.
One of these old digitals, a Sony, had a EVF. Fast forward a few years and I got the Rebel T1i, which was my first DSLR with live view. Fast forward to now and I have a dual pixel cmos imager. So, yes, I am struggling with some of the concepts. I have some experience. But in order for me to invest my money in a whole new camera system I have to understand at what point all the old weaknesses have been overcome and they can compete on the same level as a DSLR, particularly one that seems to have a very good live view system. I really don't care about video capability. So I have a lot of experience. I do like my DSLR.
The DSLR + two decent L lenses comment derives from my recent encounter with a proud Sony MILC owner. He had a FF Sony with a Zeiss 85 1.4. I admit he got on my nerves, so maybe I am all to happy to trash his system, but here's the deal. This was his new set-up. His only lens, and there was duct tape over his EVF for reasons unknown to me. I'm there with my 70D with its 70-200mm F/4 IS USM. I asking him about his camera and all he could say was that the camera plus lens cost over $4,000 and the lens had great focus in low light using face recognition to focus on the eyes. That was the total information I received. So, yes, my first thought was I could get a get a Canon 6D, and not two, but three decent L lenses for that price. I just said two because knowing the way some people spend money your are willing to pay retail price, plus might think that the 20 pixel sensor is somehow not good enough to take photos with. Not have one single focal length and a camera that was wearing duct tape the same week he bought it. So my statement is sort of anecdotal but in effect it is true.
As to criticizing the camera and not having experience with it. Has it reached the price/performance level that makes me want to switch? And I still have a lot of questions about wide angle and low light performance. I'm happy to be educated.
I also wonder about if the short flange to focal plane distance is a good thing or a bad thing. They came up with a FFD distance. Initially we were told this would facilitate lens design. But I question that. Initially they were seeking to make a lens that sat in between low cost point and shoot digital and high end DSLR. I just wonder if the did not aim too low with the flange designs they adopted. Now that FF is accessible to all the quality game has changed. I'm guessing that Canon and Nikon know that professional quality is never going to be below FF. Oly and Panasonic designed for a small sensor and did a great job. I have no Idea whether the FF MILCS have a chance or not. This isn't criticism. I am asking questions because at this point in time if I had money for a full frame camera it would be the 6D without a doubt. I had an offer through a photography teacher to buy 3 new 6D's for $750 each. (I should have done it, but had just bought my 70D). Still it's not hard to find a new 6D for around $1,000. With the 24-105 f/4L for $1500.
My question remains what makes these MILCs so appealing that people go out and spend enough on the body alone that I could put together a decent system for? I know there is something.
BTW Joju, brightcolors, Tonia, chrissw, wlm, and of course Klaus. I love you guys! I know there are big holes in my understanding. For ten years my goal has been to shoot good photos with the best equipment for the money. I know that (almost) all of you have done that, just maybe not as determinedly as I have. But since stumbling on this sight I have bought 4 brand new lenses, 1 camera, 1 flash, and 1 MFA kit. Because you managed to convince me I wasn't going to get where I wanted to be without them. So don't feel bad if I question things. I have no other way to find out. In the end you don't know until you buy. But I don't buy something new and different easily. I like building on what I have. I'm really hoping the 6D Xsr oe whatever they call it looks and feels just like the, well, 5D Miii, but without a mirror, and a very good EVF, and uses all the lenses I already own.
One of these old digitals, a Sony, had a EVF. Fast forward a few years and I got the Rebel T1i, which was my first DSLR with live view. Fast forward to now and I have a dual pixel cmos imager. So, yes, I am struggling with some of the concepts. I have some experience. But in order for me to invest my money in a whole new camera system I have to understand at what point all the old weaknesses have been overcome and they can compete on the same level as a DSLR, particularly one that seems to have a very good live view system. I really don't care about video capability. So I have a lot of experience. I do like my DSLR.
The DSLR + two decent L lenses comment derives from my recent encounter with a proud Sony MILC owner. He had a FF Sony with a Zeiss 85 1.4. I admit he got on my nerves, so maybe I am all to happy to trash his system, but here's the deal. This was his new set-up. His only lens, and there was duct tape over his EVF for reasons unknown to me. I'm there with my 70D with its 70-200mm F/4 IS USM. I asking him about his camera and all he could say was that the camera plus lens cost over $4,000 and the lens had great focus in low light using face recognition to focus on the eyes. That was the total information I received. So, yes, my first thought was I could get a get a Canon 6D, and not two, but three decent L lenses for that price. I just said two because knowing the way some people spend money your are willing to pay retail price, plus might think that the 20 pixel sensor is somehow not good enough to take photos with. Not have one single focal length and a camera that was wearing duct tape the same week he bought it. So my statement is sort of anecdotal but in effect it is true.
As to criticizing the camera and not having experience with it. Has it reached the price/performance level that makes me want to switch? And I still have a lot of questions about wide angle and low light performance. I'm happy to be educated.
I also wonder about if the short flange to focal plane distance is a good thing or a bad thing. They came up with a FFD distance. Initially we were told this would facilitate lens design. But I question that. Initially they were seeking to make a lens that sat in between low cost point and shoot digital and high end DSLR. I just wonder if the did not aim too low with the flange designs they adopted. Now that FF is accessible to all the quality game has changed. I'm guessing that Canon and Nikon know that professional quality is never going to be below FF. Oly and Panasonic designed for a small sensor and did a great job. I have no Idea whether the FF MILCS have a chance or not. This isn't criticism. I am asking questions because at this point in time if I had money for a full frame camera it would be the 6D without a doubt. I had an offer through a photography teacher to buy 3 new 6D's for $750 each. (I should have done it, but had just bought my 70D). Still it's not hard to find a new 6D for around $1,000. With the 24-105 f/4L for $1500.
My question remains what makes these MILCs so appealing that people go out and spend enough on the body alone that I could put together a decent system for? I know there is something.
BTW Joju, brightcolors, Tonia, chrissw, wlm, and of course Klaus. I love you guys! I know there are big holes in my understanding. For ten years my goal has been to shoot good photos with the best equipment for the money. I know that (almost) all of you have done that, just maybe not as determinedly as I have. But since stumbling on this sight I have bought 4 brand new lenses, 1 camera, 1 flash, and 1 MFA kit. Because you managed to convince me I wasn't going to get where I wanted to be without them. So don't feel bad if I question things. I have no other way to find out. In the end you don't know until you buy. But I don't buy something new and different easily. I like building on what I have. I'm really hoping the 6D Xsr oe whatever they call it looks and feels just like the, well, 5D Miii, but without a mirror, and a very good EVF, and uses all the lenses I already own.