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your answers made me reconsider: 

I never even considered mirrorless system however like Joju Iam often strugling to have the eyes in focus sometimes at the price of composition, with all focus points stacked near the center this surely doesn't help, face detection seems really a great thing.

The bad part is often I am in low light, and I need a good performance flash system does any mirrorless system  offer anything as good as canon ETTL II ?

Also be noted I have already invested in Canon system, my most used lenses are 50f1.4, and 17-55f2.8 on 30D,  100mm macro, 24-105f4, on 5D 

for shallow DOF 50f1,4 on APS-C or 100 f2.8 full frame are shallow enough for me,

As why am I upgrading here are the reasons starting from most relevant:

- better high ISO performance

- better resolution I don't need much but 8MP isn't good enough if you want to crop

- better AF performance and distribution of AF points

-video capable

I am surprised by your comments and have to disagree. With the A7s you mentioned, the ability to focus accurately in low light is unprecedented. AF works down to quite low levels and after that accurate MF is possible in levels where you can barely see with the naked eye. Compared to any DSLR i tried, the accuracy of AF and MF is much better - especially with fast primes in low light. DSLR make too many focus errors with fast lenses in low light. There is an issue with speed which can be slower than DSLRs (particularly in AFC) but the accuracy and light level operating window is much better


Quote:If you need ultra-high ISO then mirrorless is not for you.

That's not because of sensor noise (the Sony A7s would rule them all here) but in terms of AF.

Contrast detection AF is much more accurate than phase-detection AF on DSLRs but this advantage fades towards very low light.

But that depends on the amount of light we are talking about here.


The question of the day is however ... why do you want to upgrade at all ? :-)
Thanks for your comment, Ayoh. It's good to read that perspective from am A7s owner. In low light and with AF-C my keeper rate of moving persons goes down as well with a DSLR, no matter how advanced it's AF is. I saw improvements from model to model, but fast AND accurate in low light is no verdict I can give any of my bodies.


To be fair, I've set the mode for this kind of pictures to shutter priority. So the camera releases even if the focus is not perfect or moving away the moment I push the shutter button. In focus priority the keeper rate improved and the rate of pictures the camera let me get decreased massively. That's a pity, as sometimes the main object is in focus, but the AF points jumps over to something more shiny.  Sad


The advantage of faster focus is melting away, maybe faster than we DSLR owners are ready to accept. And the disadvantage of limited AF area will never disappear.

Quote:I understand AF technology just fine.

Your answer here and in other threads clearly shows you don't.



Quote:It is nonsense to say that shooting the Canon EF 85mm f1.2 or 50mm f1.2 or 200mm f2 or 300mm f2.8 are giving issues with F with the current Canon bodies. It is fine for people like you who use a mirrorless camera to say it is an issue, but it is not based on much.

Sorry that your Pentax DSLR experience has been such a downer.


So, you're saying Dpreview reviewers, Roger Cicala from Lensrentals.com, Nasim Mansurov from Photographylife.com and all the people in this thread who claim exactly the opposite of you are all wrong? Woow, that's quite a few people.


Your arrogance makes you blind. You know, it's okay to be wrong at times. ;-)


Oh and for the record, I shot Nikon for quite a while and a friend of mine shoots Canon, so I know exactly what I'm talking about.


Flickr gallery
  I take Brightcolours stance here, he is talking about the 5DMkII/III.......and I, the D750........


 .....................focus on the eye is dead on and I'm talking about dead on...........................in AF-C mode using "3D" you put the focus point on the eye hold down the back button focus and compose........................ the AF point remains on the eye (always the same one) and nails it 99 times out of a 100!..............nothing easier.

  We know mirror-less has less calibration problems ........but once calibrated......with  the D750 I haven't one lens that has more than + or - 2, in essence practically nothing!


  The AF system in the D750 is about as good as it gets in the DSLR world and is a "focused eye opener" to those including me who struggled (to some extent) with the Pentax system.........and I'm talking in all domains here ;..not just the easy ones........from close wide angle to catching BIF at 600mm........... it just works across the board.............


 Much of my  shooting is now at around the 600mm mark.......... ask yourselves if your Fuji could "track" an "egret" or any other bird doing 40-50 Km/h changing track etc............... and with what telephoto on the bayonet?.......... and nailing the focus on the "bird's eye"...... that's the real test..........when will  mirror-less  do that in a pro fashion?,............I've yet to see a pro shooter in sports or nature shooting action with a mirror-less ...........why? because mirror-less isn't there yet!.


.............focusing on the eye in portrait is a laughable doddle by comparison.



               I think to start citing words like "arrogance" and the like is not good "form" in forums, it raises hackles and degrades logical discussions, everyone is entitled to their view!   



But to be fair, and I try to be, mirror-less wins out hands down when it comes to the spread of focal points!


Oh and BTW, I'm very impressed with the new Sony...like very!

Dave's clichés
I'm sorry Dave, I can't confirm your findings and I'm using Nikon D750 as well. It is the best AF Nikon has, but the 3D mode in dark situations is not that far away from useless, especially if the lighting is not constantly. Tough job for any AF, I know - but unlike me, a mirrorless can still show me without hesitation a loupe and let me decide where the focus should be. With amplified light as well, because the EVF can help more than the (in this case) useless matte screen.


I also can't confirm the calibration values. Mine (on two bodies) spread much wider. Also, please keep in mind your calibrating is valid at one distance only - other distances can be different. If you don't believe - try. And at one zoom position - other positions... you get the idea. I spent quite some hours in calibrating around ten lenses, on sometimes 4 different bodies. And if a body went into repair because of some issue Nikon screwed up, I had to recalibrate again. Im FED up with that crap and my patience with DSLR promoters goes to zero. Not because "mirrorless is better" - on this calibration work I really could save a lot of time. It would be fine, if the keeper rate was beyond each discussion, but mine is not. You guys still think about each AF point is of equal quality and works equally to all the others and a lens has a perfect plane you can focus on, no field curvature no matter what. There are so many sources for focus issues that it's a miracle how often it nails it. Glad you're happy, so you have the perfect combination already. Please keep in mind, others struggle in other situations with the same combination. And, if you want to get another impression, walk around with a fast, calibrated lens and shoot only at f/1.4. That could change your view quite a bit. It's so easy to say AF is fine if I use f/4 or slower glass. 5 lenses tell me different things...


With BIF you sure have more experience and coming from a struggling system like Pentax is an advantage because you surely developed some failsafe techniques. The keeper rate of my BIFs is pretty low. One reason is, I still can't predict what will happen next.


So far not many know how mirrorless behaves behind a long lens which is designed and adjusted for DSLR, it depends on adapters and the colaboration between them, the lens and the body. Also, to operate a overly complicated menu like Sony created is a PitA of it's own mark. Not getting a shot although I could get it if I wouldn't get lost in a poorly designed menu is in it's result equally to not getting a sharp shot because AF sucks.

Indeed, Dave. It is not hard at all to see online (if one does not want to actually try a modern DSLR oneself)  just how good DSLRs are at focussing with thin DOF. thxbb12 has written about just how impossible it is for PD AF in DSLRs to be accurate with thin DOF, nothing will convince him of the opposite, I think.


Lens Rentals has never claimed that focussing on eyes is a difficult task for DSLRs with fast lenses, for instance. Nor did dpreviewers.  That manusurov guy does not actually test AF. I even posted results from different mirrorless cameras and different DSLR bodies (APS-C) tested with 42.5 to 55mm lenses in the past, tested by Foto Magazin, which showed the Canon EOS 70D with EF50mm f1.4 USM lens with PD AF to beat all the mirrorless ones (from Panasonic, Sony, Olympus) in accuracy. All these pros who rely on Canon and Nikon DSLRs and create great stuff are all wrong, I guess.


Even my old EOS 450D nailed (past tense, I gave it away to a friend) focus with PD AF sensor depending on the lens used. I can't think of a cleaner test than focus trap (camera takes a photo the moment it sees something in focus with the PD AF sensor. These were taken with my fixed focus 55mm f2 ultra micro nikkor and my self made trap focus adapter:

[Image: gallery_10230_17_156398.jpg]

AF point on the ladybug

[Image: gallery_10230_17_57825.jpg]AF point on the stamens

[Image: gallery_10230_17_41782.jpg]


And there the 450D does not even use its "extra sensitive" f2.8 AF sensor, since it thinks the lens attached is an old slow Sigma 70-300mm lens, and the aperture on the lens is closed to f4/5.6.


My 6D does just fine with its PD AF sensor with my 55mm f1.2 lenses and focus confirmation too, by the way. Probably a result of my arrogance. My crappy 28-135mm f3.5-5.6 IS USM is the one that does not focus accurately at all, a lens in dire need of service (also very decentered now).


On the issue of low light focussing:




It even nailed it through glasses!  Is F2.2 cheating?

Dave's clichés
You're awesome!  Big Grin



 Sorry you are having so many problems JoJu.......


                 How many of those problematic lenses are Sigmas? (please clarify)  I have read too many threads about focusing niggles. I'm kind of nervous about their compatibility. 

 At the moment I have...

                                       AF-20mm F2.8D

                                       AF24mm F2.8N


                                       AF 50mm F1.8D

                                       AF55 F2.8 micro and the AF85mm F1.8D


 two zooms AFS 70-300mm VR  and my Tamron 150-600! .....so yes not many zooms, but both the Tamron and the Nikon zoom are pretty much spot on....I took 200 shots yesterday with the Tamron at the river.........medium/long/close distance.......I had dialed in first -1 then -2 maybe -2 was slightly better, only quick reaction shooting produced some misses anything slow moving was nailed 95% good.

   Maybe if I was shooting at F1.4 I would suffer similarly, but I find F1.4 visually to shallow a DOF for portraits, very nice for nighttime street scenes.

   I suppose with all this nocturne talk you guys are going to push me towards a 85mm F1.4 lens.........OMG more money!


Oh Hohoho...........what fun bickering about mirror-less vs DSLRs early on a Thursday morning when we should be doing something more constructive!     Smile  :unsure:  :blink:  Big Grin

Dave's clichés
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